Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

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Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Adil » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:17 pm

Roboports are currently capable of counting items in chests covered by their network and putting those contents to circuit network. It would be nice if they could also output negative valued signals for items that are missing for construction. (i.e. there is a ghost entity within the network and there's no item to place it)
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby ssilk » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:33 pm

... and for requested items by requester chest or player(s).

The good question is: should that be part of the current signal-flow, that outputs the current contents?
Or should be separate? A signal flow for requested items and one for existing. Hm......
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Deadly-Bagel » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:55 am

The answer to that question is another question, can a Decider output only signals that meet a condition? Say if you can set [Any] < 0 (output [Any]) and have it output only signals that have a value of less than 0 then you have an easy gate for filtering out only the items you want to see.

Though either way I think it should probably be combined with the regular logistics contents. I don't see any way for the two to interfere with each other, demand is checked by looking at negative figures while storage is positive. I can't think of any situation you would (or even could) check that a signal is present but not care if it's above or below zero.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Yoyobuae » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:06 pm

Deadly-Bagel wrote:The answer to that question is another question, can a Decider output only signals that meet a condition? Say if you can set [Any] < 0 (output [Any]) and have it output only signals that have a value of less than 0 then you have an easy gate for filtering out only the items you want to see.

That would be:
(EACH < 0) -> EACH
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Optera » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:34 pm

It would be really nice if roboports had a way to output ghost and requested items.

Either by sending negative numbers alongside network content
Pro:
needs only one connection to a roboport to check what's missing from the network
Con:
available items will be added to requested so not all requests will be visible

or a 3rd radio button toggle "read Logistic Network Requests"
Pro:
dedicated output can use positive numbers for requests and shows all requests regardless if they will be fulfilled within the network
Con:
needs 2 roboports, one with each*-1 at the output (UPS drain when used excessively) to filter requests requiring delivery/production

Personally I prefer the 2nd option as it's a lot more versatile and the UPS drain should be negligible.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Slimey » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:09 pm

Are you sure that it´s not possible to get a negative number right now?
I remember an old save with a smart furnace, and I had negative numbers at one point. Could be a result of my combinator setup, but I´m not sure and the save is deleted.

EDIT: Roboport does output negative numbers right now, but I´m not sure what they represent. Maybe the difference between produced and consumed.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Yoyobuae » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:27 pm

@Slimey: But that's for logistic robots requests. OP is talking about items missing for contruction robots (ie. building which are still ghosted). Guess somewhere along the line discussion switched to logistic bot requests.

Maybe the roboports should have a logistics mode (how it works now) and a contruction mode (which works like OP wants).
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby aober93 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:32 pm

A roboport outputs negative items if they are in transit or by something this can be read somewhere. This is tolerated because 1. its true . 2. who cares.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Slimey » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:15 pm

But why do you need an signal for missing items?
You can see that when you hover the mouse over the triangle warning/notification. Both the stuff an the amounts are listed there.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Optera » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:46 am

Slimey wrote:But why do you need an signal for missing items?
You can see that when you hover the mouse over the triangle warning/notification. Both the stuff an the amounts are listed there.

So you can automate production/shipment of missing items.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby aober93 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:22 am

Optera wrote:So you can automate production/shipment of missing items.


Uhhh right??! I suppose you havent put a thought into that sentence at all. I think the devs dont hear you if this is a solution to all the problems.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby Optera » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:58 pm

aober93 wrote:
Optera wrote:So you can automate production/shipment of missing items.


Uhhh right??! I suppose you havent put a thought into that sentence at all. I think the devs dont hear you if this is a solution to all the problems.

Perhaps you should adhere your own advice and think before posting.
Factorio is a game about automation. Without feedback you simply can't create any form of control circuit.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby gridstop » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 pm

I'll jump on this one and say this is a feature I would love too. It would make it possible to do on-demand production without excessive buffering everywhere (buffering in chests, buffering in cargo wagons, etc...)

Perhaps a checkbox for 'include missing construction items in unsatisfied requests' would just make it appear as if the ghosts were being requested by an imaginary requester and it would show up rolled into the same count of missing requests.

And I will agree it probably needs to be separate from the normal logistics items count, because A) People might be using that number in particular ways and we don't want to break existing builds by feeding them negative numbers and B) in-flight logi bots sometimes make negative numbers show up and we don't necessarily want to start producing those items. (Do those negative numbers come from logi bot carrying capacity being pre-subtracted from the total once the bot is in flight? I've noticed it goes negative when I'm production starved.)
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby mattj256 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:47 am

gridstop wrote:I'll jump on this one and say this is a feature I would love too. It would make it possible to do on-demand production without excessive buffering everywhere (buffering in chests, buffering in cargo wagons, etc...)

I don't see why this is a good idea. It's not that hard to keep a small buffer on hand, have a resupply train that visits periodically, etc. Yes there will be buffering but it's easy enough to make the buffers small enough that that won't meaningfully affect the performance of a midgame factory. Perhaps if you supplied an example?
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby gridstop » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:48 pm

It's not about performance it's about being able to see what's being requested/demanded and react to it, regardless of whether you had the foresight to setup production of every single item in the game. After you've built like 20 'make everything in the game and buffer a chest of each' factories it gets a little boring and you want to try different things.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby ssilk » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:44 am

I think it is important to have different outputs:
- Items in providers (storage, active, passive) are already supported...
- Missing in logistic network requester chests.
- Missing for construction (ghosts). Deconstructed items count negative.
- Missing for personal request slots. Items in trash slot count negative.
- Items loaded into logistic robots/"on the way"
- Items loaded into construction robots/"on the way"
- Items on belts.
- Items in inserter hands.
- Items in devices input.
- Items in devices output.
- Items on ground.
- Immoveable entities on ground (devices, trees).
- Moveable entities (Player, Enemies, Vehicles).
- Resources on ground.

Most of that numbers needs not to be up to date at every tick. And it is not quite clear, what "range" is: Is it the logistic area or the construction area? That depends eventually. But they could be super practical for some states, like "My belts are full with iron ore, I can switch off the iron mines". "The player is in range of this logistic network, change production prioritization!" ...
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby PacifyerGrey » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:52 am

The feature is really nice.

So for roboport circuit network output two checkboxes could be added:
1. Account unsatisfied construction requests
2. Account unsatisfied logistic requests

By unsatisfied I mean that there are no bots currently in progress of carrying the item to its destination.
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Re: Roboports should output missing materials to circuit network

Postby mattj256 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:36 pm

PacifyerGrey wrote:By unsatisfied I mean that there are no bots currently in progress of carrying the item to its destination.

If a request is unsatisfied, that could mean the item isn't available or there aren't enough construction/logistic robots. It's important to be able to distinguish between these two cases.
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Roboport Circut Output: +Available -Demand

Postby mrzorn » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:23 pm

Edit:

Wups
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39474&p=251161&hilit=Roboport#p251161

----
Hi there!

I have this brainchild I'm thinking about since a few weeks. I want to setup a train for my outposts to supply my roboports there, outside of the reach of the "Mainbase"-Network, with the Items that are requested locally.

As far as I can see there is no way to read from a Roboport what is currently "missing" within the network.

So if it would be possible to Output from a Roboport with wire not only the Items that are available but also the Items that are currently requested (via chests or blueprints) with a negative value.

I would think the result to be like this:

Yell. Belt: + (In store 100) - (Need 00) = Output + 100 Yellow Belt
Red Belt: + (In store 050) - (Need 20) = Output + 30 Red Belt
Blue Belt: + (In store 000) - (Need 10) = Output - 10 Blue Belt
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Re: Roboport Circut Output: +Available -Demand

Postby ssilk » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:05 pm

Joined with the other thread.
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