[0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

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alercah
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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by alercah »

Bug report: the capitalization on many items is inconsistent with the base game. For instance, the base game has "Iron ore" (lower-case o) but Bob's mods add "Zinc Ore" (upper-case O).

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by valneq »

Canisters and canister filling recipes are unlocked by "Fluid handling".
However, canisters require plastics, which depends on oil processing, which depends on fluid handling.
I think this is an unintended situation.

I suggest moving canisters into their own tech, similar to gas bottles. That new tech then should depend on plastics.

Additionally, currently "Fluid Handling" unlocks the recipe to fill petroleum gas into bottles, but gas bottles and all other gas bottling recipes are unlocked by the tech "Gas bottles".

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

mrudat wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:02 am
angelsrefining + bobplates fails against a perfectly valid technology defined in Perfectly Valid Prototypes, original bug report here.

The specific issue is that it is failing against a perfectly valid technology like the following:

Code: Select all

data:extend{
  {
    type = "technology",
    expensive = nil,
    normal = {
    	unit = { ... }
    	...
    }
    ...
  }
}
I know it took me a while, but I've done it. Should be fully compatible with a technology with a difficulty now.

in all truth, when you first suggested it, I didn't feel like doing it right then... looked like too much work, and I had other things I wanted to code first.
I looked at it again today, and since I didn't have any other modding plans at the time, I just did it. Took a few hours, but it's done now.
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I also have a Patreon.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by johns276 »

Anyone else having trouble with loading (salt, calcium chloride, or other powders)? The inserters do not want to pick them up

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by johns276 »

johns276 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:59 pm
Anyone else having trouble with loading (salt, calcium chloride, or other powders)? The inserters do not want to pick them up
sigh, step 1, always rip and install mods again

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Termak »

Poison sticker (i think) still "one shot" killing me lategame with mk3 armor and multiple mk4 shields. One hit from bigger enemies leaves dot which kills me alone even when not even near the enemies anymore, the suit has plenty power and enough shields to stand in melee of multiple hightier enemies.
I was testing this on purpose and ran away from enemies after testing my shield power and just died slowly alone while no enemies on screen to poison damage or something which was stuck on my character.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Mecejide »

The descriptions of both Bob’s Ores and the ore enable override mod setting state that the latter only enables the minimum ores required for normal gameplay. Or at least, it’s supposed to, because it also enables silver ore patches even though you can also make silver ore from advanced lead processing.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

Mecejide wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:32 am
The descriptions of both Bob’s Ores and the ore enable override mod setting state that the latter only enables the minimum ores required for normal gameplay. Or at least, it’s supposed to, because it also enables silver ore patches even though you can also make silver ore from advanced lead processing.
... this is true. The setting is older than the recipe that gives Silver from Lead.
Are you suggesting that I remove Silver from the list of auto-enabled ores?
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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Mecejide »

Yes, that’s what I’m suggesting.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

Mecejide wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:00 am
Yes, that’s what I’m suggesting.
Well, since silver from lead is newer, unlike the Cobalt, it was never designed to be the sole source of silver... though the quantities you use can probably be sufficiently fulfilled from it.
I'll have to review the tech tree and where you need silver to make sure it's viable to do it.
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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by spiral_power »

Hello Bob.
There are bugs at boblocale (0.18.5) when I try to use Japanese.
factorio-current.log
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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by valneq »

spiral_power wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:49 am
Hello Bob.
There are bugs at boblocale (0.18.5) when I try to use Japanese.
factorio-current.log
Boblocale is neither developed nor maintained by bobingabout. To bring it to the attention of boblocales devs, I opened a thread on their mod portal page:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/boblocale ... c8ac3f8a93

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by spiral_power »

Boblocale is neither developed nor maintained by bobingabout. To bring it to the attention of boblocales devs, I opened a thread on their mod portal page:
Ok, thank you.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jchardin64 »

Balance issue: I noticed I'm having trouble getting enough sulfur -- I have the following bob's mods:

Bob's Revamp and Bob's Metals, Chemicals, and Intermediates are the ones directly relevant to sulfur. I can only get sulfur or sulfur dioxide as a byproduct of oil refining. So I guess you could say the problem is "I'm not using enough oil products".

P. Gas is only useful for making plastic -- I guess I could use it for solid fuel as well, but I have nuclear power at this point and my trains don't burn nearly enough to make a dent.

Most of the heavy and light oil are getting cracked down. I use some heavy for lubricant but not nearly as much as I make, and as I said I barely need any solid fuel for the trains (which I'm making from light oil).

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Mecejide »

You can vent petroleum gas.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jchardin64 »

Mecejide wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:41 am
You can vent petroleum gas.
I know, and I could also build a large fluid burning power plant to burn it, but both of those seem wasteful.

In a previous playthrough with this same modpack (more than a year ago) I was running with some refineries doing the sulfur recipes and some doing advanced processing that doesn't produce sulfur. A simple control circuit turned them on/off, and I had no issues (and didn't have to waste any products). I'm not sure what changed balance-wise, but I definitely liked the previous version.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

jchardin64 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:35 am
Mecejide wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:41 am
You can vent petroleum gas.
I know, and I could also build a large fluid burning power plant to burn it, but both of those seem wasteful.

In a previous playthrough with this same modpack (more than a year ago) I was running with some refineries doing the sulfur recipes and some doing advanced processing that doesn't produce sulfur. A simple control circuit turned them on/off, and I had no issues (and didn't have to waste any products). I'm not sure what changed balance-wise, but I definitely liked the previous version.
I think the base game changed the chemical science to use sulfur instead of a solid fuel block when they changed the basic oil processing recipe to only give PG, that could be what's throwing off the balance.
Either way, Oil is supposed to be disposable, I wouldn't vent it personally, but use it as a fuel source for something.

Also, Sulfur comes from more than just oil, Lead and Nickel processing for example, or you can just turn on sulfur ore, and mine it directly. I've heard that you get exactly the amount of sulfur you need from lead processing to make batteries, which means everything you're using lead for that isn't batteries, or from nickel, is all excess sulfur.
I've not thought of a Sulfur shortage as a possible issue, because of the other ways you can obtain it.
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I also have a Patreon.

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jchardin64 »

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:19 pm

I think the base game changed the chemical science to use sulfur instead of a solid fuel block when they changed the basic oil processing recipe to only give PG, that could be what's throwing off the balance.
Either way, Oil is supposed to be disposable, I wouldn't vent it personally, but use it as a fuel source for something.
That's probably the reason, the chem science.
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:19 pm
Also, Sulfur comes from more than just oil, Lead and Nickel processing for example, or you can just turn on sulfur ore, and mine it directly. I've heard that you get exactly the amount of sulfur you need from lead processing to make batteries, which means everything you're using lead for that isn't batteries, or from nickel, is all excess sulfur.
I've not thought of a Sulfur shortage as a possible issue, because of the other ways you can obtain it.
I hadn't seen the sulfur-from-lead processing. Is there another mod I'd need to unlock it? (I'm not using any of Angels if that's where it comes from, they're just way too confusing). Also I don't remember seeing sulfur ore on the list when I started the map (I'm not at my gaming PC right now so I'll have to go check later.) I guess this could be an issue with another mod, so I'll post a complete list later.

I'm using Logistic Train Network, so I can see when a train is being dispatched and get a sense of where most of my sulfur is going. I haven't added it up, but I think batteries and chem science together are only about 30% - 40% of my sulfur consumption -- cobalt and zinc processing, electronics, explosives, uranium and thorium mining, all use sulfur.

What I did as a workaround was make my own small mod with the following changes:

--Increase the amount of sulfur produced by oil processing from 2 to 5. Make a corresponding increase in the amount of sulfur dioxide from the other recipes.
--Make advanced oil processing use 2 sodium hydroxide (this is a sort of a real-life thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Uses) This solves another issue, that sometimes NaOH builds up in excess.
--Increase the energy required for salt water electrolysis, and reduce the fuel value of hydrogen. Also increased energy for pure water electrolysis by the same %. So if you do need extra NaOH it'll cost more energy/pollution. As a side effect, hydrogen can still be burned to get rid of the extra, but it's no longer a free energy cheat. (Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!)

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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

jchardin64 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:47 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:19 pm
Also, Sulfur comes from more than just oil, Lead and Nickel processing for example, or you can just turn on sulfur ore, and mine it directly. I've heard that you get exactly the amount of sulfur you need from lead processing to make batteries, which means everything you're using lead for that isn't batteries, or from nickel, is all excess sulfur.
I've not thought of a Sulfur shortage as a possible issue, because of the other ways you can obtain it.
I hadn't seen the sulfur-from-lead processing. Is there another mod I'd need to unlock it? (I'm not using any of Angels if that's where it comes from, they're just way too confusing). Also I don't remember seeing sulfur ore on the list when I started the map (I'm not at my gaming PC right now so I'll have to go check later.) I guess this could be an issue with another mod, so I'll post a complete list later.
Should just be part of bobplates, unlocked by researching lead processing.


I also spent a lot of time figuring out the fuel value of hydrogen, and it reflects it's cost in other fuels that use it as an ingredient. But... Hydrogen actually is one of the most potent fuels on the planet, I gave Deuterium Hydrogen's realistic fuel value, as it's expensive to produce, you wouldn't want to burn it directly anyway.
However, to make it's production cost realistic, Electrolysis would cost A LOT more electricity, and I didn't want to upset the balance of machine costs. in theory, the energy cost to produce hydrogen should be equal or more than what you'd gain from burning it as a fuel source, but that would either make it really slow to produce, or just make electrolysis really expensive. it would also make it worthwhile to crack down PG into Hydrogen instead, that is something that can be done in reality that would increase the potential energy output from the oil products.
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Re: [0.18] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jchardin64 »

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:24 pm

Should just be part of bobplates, unlocked by researching lead processing.
Ah, I see. I hadn't even looked at that, assuming the tech was some remnant left over because I didn't have a corresponding Angel's mod. "I'm already making lead from Galena Ore, I don't need whatever alchemy this is." was my thinking. I don't think it will solve the problem entirely, but it will definitely help.
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:24 pm
I also spent a lot of time figuring out the fuel value of hydrogen, and it reflects it's cost in other fuels that use it as an ingredient. But... Hydrogen actually is one of the most potent fuels on the planet, I gave Deuterium Hydrogen's realistic fuel value, as it's expensive to produce, you wouldn't want to burn it directly anyway.
However, to make it's production cost realistic, Electrolysis would cost A LOT more electricity, and I didn't want to upset the balance of machine costs. in theory, the energy cost to produce hydrogen should be equal or more than what you'd gain from burning it as a fuel source, but that would either make it really slow to produce, or just make electrolysis really expensive. it would also make it worthwhile to crack down PG into Hydrogen instead, that is something that can be done in reality that would increase the potential energy output from the oil products.
That's a good point about the PG cracking. Maybe I'll put hydrogen's fuel value back up to where it was -- although I do want to avoid the free energy cheat from electrolysis. Personally I think it should use a lot of power, since that's basically the ONLY thing it uses. If it were consuming some limited resource like carbon electrodes made from coal, then I might feel differently. But since it's basically creating useful stuff (O, Cl, NaOH) from nothing, it shouldn't be possible to also make it supply excess energy.

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