[0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

Moderator: bobingabout

What should go where?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:41 pm

Add everything to the logistics mod
12
40%
Everything inserter related in the new inserters mod
9
30%
Only the new adjustment functionallity in the inserters mod
9
30%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:57 am

orzelek wrote:Unless you added techs already to upgrade electric type of ammo?
No, but I was thinking maybe I should add that to the warfare mod.
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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Nexela » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:59 am

Now the only problem is the mk3 trains/tank grids are too small :)

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:15 am

The armored train grid is bigger than the train MK3 grid.

I am open to size sugestions.
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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Nexela » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:40 am

I think 2 rows per level would be plenty. and armored would be the same as mk2

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by orzelek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:42 am

Grids seems smallish at start - not sure how they will work in practice.

I think it would be useful to have higher mark car with increased grid.
With vehicle grids I might finally start using tanks :D

As a general comment - would you consider reducing electronic board grades for some of construction bot related stuff (personal roboport, bots themselves, better solar panels for armor/vehicles). Main idea behind this is that with electronics mod it can take really long time to build up the factor for advanced electronic stuff and you have no access to bots till then.

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Nexela » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:26 pm

Yeah with the robot revamp. I think the construction robots are slightly higher in the tier then they used to be.

Also while I like the tool/brain combo I don't like the fact that there is a tool/brain for each robot and each tier. It would be a lot cleaner if it was just tier 1 - 4 robot brain, tier 1- 4 tool, tier 1-? weapon (for capsules)

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:04 pm

The brains are different, with slightly different ingredients in an attempt to make the recipes slightly unique. The way I wanted to do it, if they all cost the same, you start to think... "What's the difference between a logistic and construction bot, if they cost the same to make?"
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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Ratzap » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:10 pm

Nexela wrote:I think 2 rows per level would be plenty. and armored would be the same as mk2
I disagree there. No-body builds armoured trains, they always just use the highest possible mk available. Now if the armoured train becomes the 'combat oriented' train of choice it should reasonably have the largest grid in order to make it a valid option. If you just want fast trains, use the mk3. If you want a combat train with loads of gear, use the armoured one.

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:31 pm

Ratzap wrote:
Nexela wrote:I think 2 rows per level would be plenty. and armored would be the same as mk2
I disagree there. No-body builds armoured trains, they always just use the highest possible mk available. Now if the armoured train becomes the 'combat oriented' train of choice it should reasonably have the largest grid in order to make it a valid option. If you just want fast trains, use the mk3. If you want a combat train with loads of gear, use the armoured one.
I agree.
as it stands:
regular trains have a grid 8 wide, with 2 high for MK1, 3 high for MK2 and 4 high for MK3.
Armoured trains have a 10x6 grid, so, much bigger than MK3, as an incentive to use them as a combat option.
If I made the regular trains 2 height per level, I'd probably make the armoured train even bigger.

I can't remember what I gave the car, but I think the tanks were 2 height per level, and all 10 wide, so the MK3 tank had the same size grid as armored trains.

Now we can talk about the whole thing... should grids be bigger, should the equipment be different sized, should it be more/less powerful? If you keep the grids the same size, does that mean that a shield should be worth 2 or 3 of that of the power armor? etc.
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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by iceman_1212 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:00 pm

i personally think grid size is fine as is for mk1 - mk3. making the grid bigger for mk3 would render armored locomotives obsolete (because of vehicle shields).

btw, re: the vehicle motors/engines - it seems that they improve accleration but not top speed. what was the thinking behind that, out of curiosity? i am of course asking for selfish reasons :lol: since i'm playing with some customized rso settings (aka rso on steroids :twisted: ) and my first set of stations are ~3,000 tiles away.

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by orzelek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:06 pm

iceman_1212 wrote:i personally think grid size is fine as is for mk1 - mk3. making the grid bigger for mk3 would render armored locomotives obsolete (because of vehicle shields).

btw, re: the vehicle motors/engines - it seems that they improve accleration but not top speed. what was the thinking behind that, out of curiosity? i am of course asking for selfish reasons :lol: since i'm playing with some customized rso settings (aka rso on steroids :twisted: ) and my first set of stations are ~3,000 tiles away.
I belive somone tested this with exos and it seems thats how the game works. It buffs acceleration (certain tank experiments show it might not buff deceleration) but for some reason for trains it doesn't change max speed.
I'm not sure but it might be a bug. Or a feature. Hard to tell :D

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by iceman_1212 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:28 pm

orzelek wrote:
iceman_1212 wrote:i personally think grid size is fine as is for mk1 - mk3. making the grid bigger for mk3 would render armored locomotives obsolete (because of vehicle shields).

btw, re: the vehicle motors/engines - it seems that they improve accleration but not top speed. what was the thinking behind that, out of curiosity? i am of course asking for selfish reasons :lol: since i'm playing with some customized rso settings (aka rso on steroids :twisted: ) and my first set of stations are ~3,000 tiles away.
I belive somone tested this with exos and it seems thats how the game works. It buffs acceleration (certain tank experiments show it might not buff deceleration) but for some reason for trains it doesn't change max speed.
I'm not sure but it might be a bug. Or a feature. Hard to tell :D
interesting, it may be a property of the trains vehicle grid equipment can't tweak.

so it turns out that top speed is also dependent on the composition of wagon types - my 2-10 (two mk3 locos and 10 mk1 - mk3 wagons) can go 324 km/hr. Replacing one of the wagons with an armored cargo wagon will reduce it to ~224 km/hr.

But damn does it hurt to lose a mk3 cargo wagon to a pack of natural evolution behemoths - earlier in this game, i lost 3 full mk3 wagons - 36k ore evaporated :oops:

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:03 pm

Yup. I've discussed the issues before, exoskeleton type equipment (Which my motor and engine are basically reskinned versions of) only seem to effect acceleration of vehicles, they don't effect breaking, or max speed.

With the acceleration though, it would allow you to put the motor/engine in the locomotive, which would allow the train to pull more cargo wagons without having to add more locomotives.

I also suppose one of the questions I should ask is.... should my cargo wagons even have a max speed? and if not, should the locomotives? it does feel a bit odd for a wagon to restrict the speed of a train. even though that is a relatively realistic thing, wagons would have speed limits set on them, because if you go faster than this speed, you could damage them.
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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Smoovious » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:41 am

bobingabout wrote:Yup. I've discussed the issues before, exoskeleton type equipment (Which my motor and engine are basically reskinned versions of) only seem to effect acceleration of vehicles, they don't effect breaking, or max speed.

With the acceleration though, it would allow you to put the motor/engine in the locomotive, which would allow the train to pull more cargo wagons without having to add more locomotives.

I also suppose one of the questions I should ask is.... should my cargo wagons even have a max speed? and if not, should the locomotives? it does feel a bit odd for a wagon to restrict the speed of a train. even though that is a relatively realistic thing, wagons would have speed limits set on them, because if you go faster than this speed, you could damage them.
True, different RL wagons/cars would sometimes have speed limits on them, depending on which type, and which cargo they'd expect to take.

Radioactives would have to run slower, but that's more of a hazmat rule than an issue with the vehicle.

Since Factorio's rolling stock are pretty generic, probably wouldn't make much sense to speed restrict them, although it may make sense to limit the speed on tankers, due to all of the fluid sloshing around on grades, curves, changes in speed, etc... but it wouldn't be drastic. Maybe a 10%-20% difference... enough so cargo trains (without tankers) can overtake tanker and mixed manifest (with tankers) trains...

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Nexela » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:04 am

Problems with multiplayer and Bob's inserters mod - UPS drop due to script times

In a multiplayer map every player who has ever connected gets added to game.players, every tick you are iterating through this list. with a couple hundred players saved in a map this takes longer and longer. Some suggestions on performance enhancing is included below

Code: Select all

script.on_event(defines.events.on_tick, function(event)
  for i, player in pairs(game.players) do --Option 1 wrap this whole function so it is only called every 30 ticks or so (.5 seconds)

    bobmods.inserters.create_global_table(player.index)  -- move this sanity check into the the events

 --  option 2 create a global reverse lookup list with players added as they open the gui. and in the tick handler loop through all players in this list to close the gui if needed.
--    this is why we REALLY need an on_gui_closed type event......
    local entity = global.bobmods.inserters[player.index].entity
    if entity and (not entity.valid or not player.can_reach_entity(entity)) then
      bobmods.inserters.delete_gui(player.index)
    end
  end
end)

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by brab » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:38 pm

I have a question about inserters and keyboard shortcuts. I've seen mentioned in several places that one can change the inserter configuration using the keyboard, but I only can do it using the GUI. Have the shortcuts been removed? (I've looked at the mods tab in the controls preference and there is a single thing there from an unrelated mod.)

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by bobingabout » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:46 am

brab wrote:I have a question about inserters and keyboard shortcuts. I've seen mentioned in several places that one can change the inserter configuration using the keyboard, but I only can do it using the GUI. Have the shortcuts been removed? (I've looked at the mods tab in the controls preference and there is a single thing there from an unrelated mod.)
Shortcuts only exist if you have the adjustable inserters mod installed. double check the mod section of the keybinds menu to make sure they're there.
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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by brab » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:01 am

bobingabout wrote:
brab wrote:I have a question about inserters and keyboard shortcuts. I've seen mentioned in several places that one can change the inserter configuration using the keyboard, but I only can do it using the GUI. Have the shortcuts been removed? (I've looked at the mods tab in the controls preference and there is a single thing there from an unrelated mod.)
Shortcuts only exist if you have the adjustable inserters mod installed. double check the mod section of the keybinds menu to make sure they're there.
That was it, thanks a lot. You produce so many mods it's hard to keep track :D

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by Iorek » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:17 am

imo the grids should reflect their physical size.

make trains HUGE
Cars large
Tanks as they are


This also reflects how you can use them, No matter how much shields and heavy cannon you put on a train, unless you build track into a nest your mainly using it for defense of the train. There is no real "imbalance" in a 16x16 grid train as its locked to the tracks.
Given how vulnerable trains are vs 10x10000 hp biters on the track there is nothing you can really do... the train... will invariably die

Cars are a lower tech alternative to Power armor and have all the issue of lower mobility, hard to use, +They die! so having a large grid is fine.


I think the Vehicle equipment should be different from the power armor. More range or more charge points for Roboports. Perhaps increase shields to 3x3 with a large increase in performance. Otherwise its hard to argue for simply using Armor modules in Vehicles.



Is there any way to increase the amount of damage trains/tank/cars do when they run over things?
I asked this in Mod discussion and nobody seemed to know?

Could have a "snowplow" item that increases the amount of damage trains do on impact.
I was considering using a 2m range laser that deals 1000 damage, so trains can "run over" biters on the track rather than die a hideous painful death to them.


The vehicle mounter "lasers" should be alot more powerful imo

into warfare!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_gun
??

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Re: [0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Logistics mod

Post by steinio » Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:31 pm

I guess the inserters go to the logistic mod?

How about to change the little dialog for changing inserters prior building to the large configuration screen what is shown on Ctrl + E?
The unresearched positions could be not selectable.

I made a little mockup, should be smaller maybe:
Bobs logistics inserter.png
Bobs logistics inserter.png (203.24 KiB) Viewed 2909 times
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