[0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

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jacew
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jacew »

jodokus31 wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:32 pm
What does the tooltip say under "Crafting Speed"?
EDIT: I mean the placed assembler with the selected recipe. Some things like prod mod or anything other could change the crafting speed. Just to be sure.
Also, UPS drop could change real time speed..
Sorry haven't had a chance to do this sooner but I've made a recording of the slow assemblers. UPS is at 60. Only mods are all of bobs and angels and a couple of quality of life mods.

https://imgur.com/rQ4E11P

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jodokus31 »

jacew wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:53 pm
jodokus31 wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:32 pm
What does the tooltip say under "Crafting Speed"?
EDIT: I mean the placed assembler with the selected recipe. Some things like prod mod or anything other could change the crafting speed. Just to be sure.
Also, UPS drop could change real time speed..
Sorry haven't had a chance to do this sooner but I've made a recording of the slow assemblers. UPS is at 60. Only mods are all of bobs and angels and a couple of quality of life mods.

https://imgur.com/rQ4E11P
That looks indeed strange. Am I wrong or are those blue belts are pretty slow, too?
Do you have some mods, which artificially double UPS like Global Tick Time Scale https://mods.factorio.com/mod/GTTS
I never tried it, but i could imagine, that this could be the result.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

ukezi wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:44 pm
Is it intended that oil burning heat sources have neighborhood bonuses? That can generate a lot more power.
Yes.
They're not as strong as nuclear reactors though to help compensate.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Pinoccio64 »

Hi Bob's Mod team !

At this stage of the game, I cannot make or reproduce the advanced automation science pack (orange), because I need the express inserters that at this stage of the game are not yet available at the research level !?
In fact, it is the snake that bites its tail, or in other words, in the structure of your research tree, we put the carts in front of the horse :(, to be able to create the express inserter, I must first create a chain of elements that compose the orange pack in their respective search!

Thank you in advance for finding a solution to this problem.
Best regards.
Cyril
No Express insert available.png
No Express insert available.png (298.25 KiB) Viewed 4302 times
Orange fluid science pack.png
Orange fluid science pack.png (231.31 KiB) Viewed 4302 times
Orange science pack.png
Orange science pack.png (145.83 KiB) Viewed 4302 times
Screen shot express inserter recherch.png
Screen shot express inserter recherch.png (514.96 KiB) Viewed 4302 times

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Light »

Pinoccio64 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:07 pm
At this stage of the game, I cannot make or reproduce the advanced automation science pack (orange)
Advanced automation science packs aren't part of Bob's. This is a conflict with one of your mods that adds new science.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

Pinoccio64 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:07 pm
Hi Bob's Mod team !

At this stage of the game, I cannot make or reproduce the advanced automation science pack (orange), because I need the express inserters that at this stage of the game are not yet available at the research level !?
In fact, it is the snake that bites its tail, or in other words, in the structure of your research tree, we put the carts in front of the horse :(, to be able to create the express inserter, I must first create a chain of elements that compose the orange pack in their respective search!

Thank you in advance for finding a solution to this problem.
Best regards.
Cyril

No Express insert available.pngOrange fluid science pack.pngOrange science pack.pngScreen shot express inserter recherch.png
It's a conflict with another mod you have.

A possible fix to the issue, turn off Inserter overhaul, fast inserters (the express inserter in the current example) will be available much earlier.

This is one of the reasons why I have so many options, in most cases, if there's some sort of conflict like this, you can just change an option and fix the issue... you just need to figure out which options, and at the same time, you're removing some of the features that I add, but compatibility and features don't always go well together.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by takumi152 »

I have following list of mods installed:
modlist.png
modlist.png (81.88 KiB) Viewed 4228 times
When I try to start game with these mods activated and Japanese language setting, the game fails to load boblocale.
loaderror.png
loaderror.png (23.66 KiB) Viewed 4228 times

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

takumi152 wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:22 am
I have following list of mods installed:
modlist.png
When I try to start game with these mods activated and Japanese language setting, the game fails to load boblocale.
loaderror.png
Boblocale is not one I write myself.
The error does indicate that it is with that specific mod.
I will pass the message on.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by ColdPrototype »

Is it just me, or are deuterium fuel cells very overpowered? It seems that with a pumpjack, less than a dozen chemical plants and electrolyzers, and a trickle of lead, I can produce an order of magnitude more power than a very resource-intensive uranium centrifuge/mining operation. Even the research is far less expensive than vanilla uranium enrichment (which is basically required for effective uranium power).

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

ColdPrototype wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:33 pm
Is it just me, or are deuterium fuel cells very overpowered? It seems that with a pumpjack, less than a dozen chemical plants and electrolyzers, and a trickle of lead, I can produce an order of magnitude more power than a very resource-intensive uranium centrifuge/mining operation. Even the research is far less expensive than vanilla uranium enrichment (which is basically required for effective uranium power).
I've been trying to think of something to make the deuterium fuel cells harder to craft, I'm just not sure what yet. I could say, oh, you need to stick some Plutonium in there too, but... doesn't feel right.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Light »

It's something that will need to be addressed at some point. The Space Exploration mod with its anti-matter cells locked near the end of the tech tree with their ability of generating intense heat up to 5000 degrees within a short time period isn't very appealing compared to deuterium (Ironically). It's so easy to create early on that it's honestly easier to live off deuterium forever than bother with the recipe and entity requirement of anti-matter or even uranium or plutonium.

Right now it's something my group has chosen not to abuse including the plutonium enrichment process. The uranium enrichment recipe breaks the game regarding nuclear power and so making thorium-plutonium cells which are superior in the same vein resulted in its removal as well.

Adding enrichment in the same style as MadClown's version where it has to slowly enrich the uranium until it reaches a certain % for fuel cell usage is the version I've always opted for. You need a lot of ore to enrich uranium to the 35% mark when it becomes fuel, but the residual 0% uranium is turned into the depleted uranium ammo which is a good sink for it. Weapons grade uranium at 95% enrichment makes for nukes if you choose to enrich that far.

Plutonium and deuterium lack any enrichment so you need a relatively tiny setup to achieve superior results. Perhaps some further processing could help prevent it from being so simple.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

Light wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:13 am
It's something that will need to be addressed at some point. The Space Exploration mod with its anti-matter cells locked near the end of the tech tree with their ability of generating intense heat up to 5000 degrees within a short time period isn't very appealing compared to deuterium (Ironically). It's so easy to create early on that it's honestly easier to live off deuterium forever than bother with the recipe and entity requirement of anti-matter or even uranium or plutonium.

Right now it's something my group has chosen not to abuse including the plutonium enrichment process. The uranium enrichment recipe breaks the game regarding nuclear power and so making thorium-plutonium cells which are superior in the same vein resulted in its removal as well.

Adding enrichment in the same style as MadClown's version where it has to slowly enrich the uranium until it reaches a certain % for fuel cell usage is the version I've always opted for. You need a lot of ore to enrich uranium to the 35% mark when it becomes fuel, but the residual 0% uranium is turned into the depleted uranium ammo which is a good sink for it. Weapons grade uranium at 95% enrichment makes for nukes if you choose to enrich that far.

Plutonium and deuterium lack any enrichment so you need a relatively tiny setup to achieve superior results. Perhaps some further processing could help prevent it from being so simple.
The main use for Plutonium is something I have yet to add, using it in thorium-plutonium fuel cells is sort of a "Here's a use for it for now" thing. Also, I wouldn't say the recipes are where I want them right now anyway. I should probably do a bit more research and write up a better chain, but the byproduct of the thorium cells should be U233, not Pu239, but I didn't want to add too much new stuff at the time. you'd then have to worry about what to do with U233, and should the resulting fuel be used in a Uranium or Thorium reactor?


To go back to Deuterium, what it's missing is a fusion catalyst. in theory, you want Tritium (which is pretty much just doing the same to heavy water that you did to normal water for a small percentage of Tritium-Oxide, but I'd need to make sure you can't just run the excess heavy water back to the input again, so would need another intermediate) or Helium 3... but where are you going to get Helium from? (or since Deuterium is just a name for Hydrogen 2, and Tritium is just a name for Hydrogen 3... Protium actually being a name for Hydrogen 1. by the same token, tralphium is technically the name for Helium 3, it's just not widely used as Deuterium and Tritium are for Hydrogen 2 and Hydrogen 3.)

In theory... the best 2 candidates for tralphium would be...

Make it:
Fusing Deuterium with a proton, then collecting an electron... that's something that would happen inside the damn reactor, so, Helium could be something you salvage from used deuterium fusion cells.
Bombard Lithium with neutrons, which again sounds like something that might happen in the reactor, especially since we currently get Lithium out as our byproduct. So... This option basically seems more like a "Recycle to keep things running" option.

Collect it: Best source known to us... the moon, so... some Rocket silo recipe? (IE, the result if you send something other than a satellite into space?)


Thoughts?
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by jgb »

I like option 1 and 2. Option 3 (sending drones into space) seems too much like Darkstar. Unless you want your mod to have a space feature-set like Darkstar has eventually (I actually think of all the mods I have seen, Darkstar complements Bob's the most naturally with belt, assembler, etc. progression).

I think I lean more toward reclaiming some useful materials from spent deuterium cells over the lithium option. It might be a good idea to add a centrifuge option or something to allow people to craft it without requiring them to have a deuterium power setup if they don't want one, though.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Karosieben »

takumi152 wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:22 am
I have following list of mods installed:
modlist.png
When I try to start game with these mods activated and Japanese language setting, the game fails to load boblocale.
loaderror.png
Fixed in 0.17.13
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Light »

bobingabout wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:53 am
The main use for Plutonium is something I have yet to add, using it in thorium-plutonium fuel cells is sort of a "Here's a use for it for now" thing. Also, I wouldn't say the recipes are where I want them right now anyway. I should probably do a bit more research and write up a better chain, but the byproduct of the thorium cells should be U233, not Pu239, but I didn't want to add too much new stuff at the time. you'd then have to worry about what to do with U233, and should the resulting fuel be used in a Uranium or Thorium reactor?
I'd say not to stress details like what reactor it should go into as not everyone will be using those reactor types (I sure don't), but focus more on the recipes themselves and the minor technicalities later. The answers may come to you through playtesting.

You know your mod best, so I trust your judgement on what you find most fitting for recipe decisions. Using the centrifuge for further refinement of materials would be acceptable as it seems to be a mini-reactor in itself given its enrichment properties.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

Light wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:59 pm
bobingabout wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:53 am
The main use for Plutonium is something I have yet to add, using it in thorium-plutonium fuel cells is sort of a "Here's a use for it for now" thing. Also, I wouldn't say the recipes are where I want them right now anyway. I should probably do a bit more research and write up a better chain, but the byproduct of the thorium cells should be U233, not Pu239, but I didn't want to add too much new stuff at the time. you'd then have to worry about what to do with U233, and should the resulting fuel be used in a Uranium or Thorium reactor?
I'd say not to stress details like what reactor it should go into as not everyone will be using those reactor types (I sure don't), but focus more on the recipes themselves and the minor technicalities later. The answers may come to you through playtesting.

You know your mod best, so I trust your judgement on what you find most fitting for recipe decisions. Using the centrifuge for further refinement of materials would be acceptable as it seems to be a mini-reactor in itself given its enrichment properties.
Although I agree that using the centrifuge does feel right for making the next tier of ingredient... it doesn't have any pipe connections.
I've considered adding some, but it doesn't look right (It's kind of triangle shaped, not square, so doesn't have hard edges like an assembling machine does)
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by Light »

bobingabout wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:37 pm
Light wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:59 pm
bobingabout wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:53 am
The main use for Plutonium is something I have yet to add, using it in thorium-plutonium fuel cells is sort of a "Here's a use for it for now" thing. Also, I wouldn't say the recipes are where I want them right now anyway. I should probably do a bit more research and write up a better chain, but the byproduct of the thorium cells should be U233, not Pu239, but I didn't want to add too much new stuff at the time. you'd then have to worry about what to do with U233, and should the resulting fuel be used in a Uranium or Thorium reactor?
I'd say not to stress details like what reactor it should go into as not everyone will be using those reactor types (I sure don't), but focus more on the recipes themselves and the minor technicalities later. The answers may come to you through playtesting.

You know your mod best, so I trust your judgement on what you find most fitting for recipe decisions. Using the centrifuge for further refinement of materials would be acceptable as it seems to be a mini-reactor in itself given its enrichment properties.
Although I agree that using the centrifuge does feel right for making the next tier of ingredient... it doesn't have any pipe connections.
I've considered adding some, but it doesn't look right (It's kind of triangle shaped, not square, so doesn't have hard edges like an assembling machine does)
Barreling the fluid and inserting it into the centrifuge would yield the same result if piping isn't an option. It's a minor compromise that wouldn't hurt throughput as well, so there shouldn't be any major complaints.

Honestly, there's enough entities requiring pipes that it seems you need more pipes than belts at times. It would be nice to have something a bit different for once, much like how the game used to be before fluid wagons basically changed the paradigm of how we see things today. It has become a bit boring if you ask me.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

Light wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:44 pm
bobingabout wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:37 pm
Light wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:59 pm
bobingabout wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:53 am
The main use for Plutonium is something I have yet to add, using it in thorium-plutonium fuel cells is sort of a "Here's a use for it for now" thing. Also, I wouldn't say the recipes are where I want them right now anyway. I should probably do a bit more research and write up a better chain, but the byproduct of the thorium cells should be U233, not Pu239, but I didn't want to add too much new stuff at the time. you'd then have to worry about what to do with U233, and should the resulting fuel be used in a Uranium or Thorium reactor?
I'd say not to stress details like what reactor it should go into as not everyone will be using those reactor types (I sure don't), but focus more on the recipes themselves and the minor technicalities later. The answers may come to you through playtesting.

You know your mod best, so I trust your judgement on what you find most fitting for recipe decisions. Using the centrifuge for further refinement of materials would be acceptable as it seems to be a mini-reactor in itself given its enrichment properties.
Although I agree that using the centrifuge does feel right for making the next tier of ingredient... it doesn't have any pipe connections.
I've considered adding some, but it doesn't look right (It's kind of triangle shaped, not square, so doesn't have hard edges like an assembling machine does)
Barreling the fluid and inserting it into the centrifuge would yield the same result if piping isn't an option. It's a minor compromise that wouldn't hurt throughput as well, so there shouldn't be any major complaints.

Honestly, there's enough entities requiring pipes that it seems you need more pipes than belts at times. It would be nice to have something a bit different for once, much like how the game used to be before fluid wagons basically changed the paradigm of how we see things today. It has become a bit boring if you ask me.
the problem with doing that though, is if I want ratios of... 100 in, 99.8 and 0.2 out, you can't really do that with barrels.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by BlueTemplar »

Why not?
Vanilla centrifuge already does 10 in, 0.993 and 0.007 out...
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout »

BlueTemplar wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:30 am
Why not?
Vanilla centrifuge already does 10 in, 0.993 and 0.007 out...
it uses random chance to give you item A 0.993 of the time and item B 0.007 of the time, and the 2 are not dependant on each other.
therefore, you often get nothing, and sometimes get both items.

In theory, yes, I could do that, but I wanted something more reliable for this stage of the process.
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