Factorio Forums

Assembly 0.17.7:
Change all recipe enabled = "false" lines to enabled = false
Added a steam filter to the input of the steam powered assembling machine.
Fixed issue with new chemical plant graphics (Currently still uses old graphics, and colours update causes the base chem plant to use the old graphics too)

Logistics 0.17.16:
Added Storage tank with pipe connections in all 4 corners.
Fixed pump bounding box change causing error.

Bobingabout, It seems 0.17.68 breaks the mods...

RocketManChronicles wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:50 am

Bobingabout, It seems 0.17.68 breaks the mods...

I fixed the 0.16.67 break... this isn't it, this is a MUCH earlier issue... and it's not even my mod, I don't have an advanced-assembler.

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:58 am

RocketManChronicles wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:50 am

Bobingabout, It seems 0.17.68 breaks the mods...

I fixed the 0.16.67 break... this isn't it, this is a MUCH earlier issue... and it's not even my mod, I don't have an advanced-assembler.

Yeah, I just found it after posting (of course), it was the Expanded Rocket Payloads mod. So, ignore my post or delete it! LOL

@bobingabout Could you add a signal to the reactors and heat sources (Or an extra entity) that displays there temperature?

ukezi wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:29 am

@bobingabout Could you add a signal to the reactors and heat sources (Or an extra entity) that displays there temperature?

I don't think the abillity to do that exists in the game engine... but I'll look into it.

yeah, looking in the game files I didn't really understand how the logic network determines what kind of signals an entity can emit. That is probably part of the C++ entity class, so that all tanks emit their content, batteries their load level and so on. I guess I can do a complicated setup with latches, pipes, pumps and tanks.
Also interesting would be a heat storage entity, that just soaks a few GJ per 100°C. With your high temperature heat exchangers it's hard to use high level reactors and heat sources efficiently as they reach max temperature to fast.

ukezi wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 pm

yeah, looking in the game files I didn't really understand how the logic network determines what kind of signals an entity can emit. That is probably part of the C++ entity class, so that all tanks emit their content, batteries their load level and so on. I guess I can do a complicated setup with latches, pipes, pumps and tanks.
Also interesting would be a heat storage entity, that just soaks a few GJ per 100°C. With your high temperature heat exchangers it's hard to use high level reactors and heat sources efficiently as they reach max temperature to fast.

I guess that's one reason why I use the Thorium reactor most, the thorium fuel itself has a fairly low fuel value, meaning it burns out pretty fast.

Also if you reach max temperature too fast, your heat network probably isn't big enough. (maybe you don't have enough HEs) I think the design was that from MK2 onwards, you needed 5 HEs per reactor, so if you have a +100 neighbour bonus, that's 10 HE's for that reactor, or if you have +300%, that's 20HEs per reactor.
a simple 2x2 would therefore need 15 per rector, or 60 of them. a 5x2 would need 15 for the 4 corner reactors, and 20 for the 6 middle reactors, a total of 180HEs.

If you want to use MK3 HEs on your MK2 reactors, like I do, then the maths is basically the same, but only 4 per base reactor instead of 5, for a total of 144 HEs for 10 reactors.


Anyway... an entity that stores A LOT of heat should be possible, the reactors themselves do that, though my heat sources store considerably less. the problem is... do you make it a heat pipe? if so, you'd be limited to a 1x1 entity... or do you make it a reactor? in which case, you'd probably need to set it up with a void power source, but 0 output, but is that even allowed?

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:45 am

in which case, you'd probably need to set it up with a void power source, but 0 output, but is that even allowed?

How about a boiler without fluid boxes or can't they re transmit the heat? That is the third kind of entity with a heat capacity. Also are furnaces/assemblers with a heat power source possible? Looking at the code it seems to me to be just an other kind of power source class.

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:45 am

Also if you reach max temperature too fast, your heat network probably isn't big enough.

Probably. I was playing around with fluid burners and adjacency bonuses. The network worked well with MK1 everything but with MK3 with the way higher output and the higher temperature it switched parts of and I was looking for maximum efficiency.

ukezi wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:26 pm

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:45 am

in which case, you'd probably need to set it up with a void power source, but 0 output, but is that even allowed?

How about a boiler without fluid boxes or can't they re transmit the heat? That is the third kind of entity with a heat capacity. Also are furnaces/assemblers with a heat power source possible? Looking at the code it seems to me to be just an other kind of power source class.

The boiler prototype would probably error if it had no pipes. Besides, you'd need to have the energy source set to heat, in which case it would open a full boiler GUI when you clicked on it.

A few random questions:
1) Is there some weird Mandela Effect going on, or did your mods used to add Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 Portable Fusion Reactors? I have everything except for Bob's Enemies, is it somewhere there maybe? Or am I completely wrong? If I am - maybe those could be implemented? It would be sad if my cool new Power Armor Mk 5 didn't have enough energy to run on its full potential.

2) Does the game HUD truncate values larger than 10? Because for Oil fueled Boiler Mk3, the listed energy consumption is 10 MW, and in order to power 3 tier 4 Steam Engines, it would have to be 3*3,6 = 10,8 MW (to be consistent with tiers 1 and 2). Likewise, Mk4 oil boiler is listed as 13MW, and 3 level 5 Steam Engines would consume 3*4,5 = 13,5 MW.

3) Should Lithium-Ion Batteries and Silver-Zinc Batteries be made in a Chemical Plant (to be consistent with regular Batteries)? Currently they are made in an Assembler.

4) Of all the high-tier production facility research, the ONLY one to require Utility Science Packs is... Distillery 5. Is this an oversight, or intentional?

Also, thanks for your answer to my earlier post. I do have one more suggestion for Bob's Power though:

Geothermal power. Basically, it would be a node like oil, but it would produce no fluid. But you could build a Geothermal Plant on this node, for a plant than produces a low, fixed amount of pollution-free energy. Maybe the nodes could be assigned a "richness", which would modify the power output?

Oh, and one more thing:
Would it make sense to make all inserters into filter inserters / give them the filtering ability via research? Is it possible to have this be a toggleable option in the GUI, like pick-up position, offset, etc., in your Inserters mod? I really like the streamlined progression (no separate long-handed inserters), but fail to see why the filtering-capable ones need to be separate entities.

Imperio wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:16 pm

A few random questions:
2) Does the game HUD truncate values larger than 10? Because for Oil fueled Boiler Mk3, the listed energy consumption is 10 MW, and in order to power 3 tier 4 Steam Engines, it would have to be 3*3,6 = 10,8 MW (to be consistent with tiers 1 and 2). Likewise, Mk4 oil boiler is listed as 13MW, and 3 level 5 Steam Engines would consume 3*4,5 = 13,5 MW.

All numbers shown (in signals for example) with a unit modifier use xxx, x.xk, xxxk, x.xM, xxxM, x.xG, xxxG. So I suspect it just shows truncated value.

Imperio wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:16 pm

A few random questions:
1) Is there some weird Mandela Effect going on, or did your mods used to add Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 Portable Fusion Reactors? I have everything except for Bob's Enemies, is it somewhere there maybe? Or am I completely wrong? If I am - maybe those could be implemented? It would be sad if my cool new Power Armor Mk 5 didn't have enough energy to run on its full potential.

Pretty sure all that stuff was moved to Bob's equipment mod

kingarthur wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:48 pm

Imperio wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:16 pm

A few random questions:
1) Is there some weird Mandela Effect going on, or did your mods used to add Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 Portable Fusion Reactors? I have everything except for Bob's Enemies, is it somewhere there maybe? Or am I completely wrong? If I am - maybe those could be implemented? It would be sad if my cool new Power Armor Mk 5 didn't have enough energy to run on its full potential.

Pretty sure all that stuff was moved to Bob's equipment mod

Yes. all moved to Bob's Equipment, all still exists.

Imperio wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:16 pm

Geothermal power. Basically, it would be a node like oil, but it would produce no fluid. But you could build a Geothermal Plant on this node, for a plant than produces a low, fixed amount of pollution-free energy. Maybe the nodes could be assigned a "richness", which would modify the power output?

There is a mod that works really well for this called "Geothermal Energy." Plus, it works with Alien Biomes to have a weighted effect of having the "nodes" be more populous in volcanic biomes than others. No need to add this to Bob's unless he really wants to.



@Bobingabout:

I have started messing with your Burner Heat Sources to see what kind of power plants I can build. I have built a small power plant consisting of Oil Burning Heat Sources(mk1), HEs (mk1), and Steam Turbines (mk1). And it seems I cannot get the temperature up in the heat pipes. My set up has 12 Oil Burning Heat Sources, 32 HEs, and 56 Steam Turbines. Now, it is working and producing power, however, the temperature in the OBHSs and the closest heat pipes is not going over 510C. I am using Liquid Fuel as my oil/fuel source. Is this temperature indicative of the mk1 setup, whereas if I upgrade to mk2s I will reach higher temperatures? Or is there a better balance than what I have calculated in this setup?

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:37 pm

The boiler prototype would probably error if it had no pipes. Besides, you'd need to have the energy source set to heat, in which case it would open a full boiler GUI when you clicked on it.

I tested around a bit with it. The boiler prototype indeed errors without fluid boxes. However I found an other class of entity. The heat-interface. If you set gui_mode = "none" it does has a GUI like a accumulator without circuit connection but without settings. One would of cause find a nice graphic for it. Maybe a battery without the animation and some added heat connectors.

ukezi wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:05 am

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:37 pm

The boiler prototype would probably error if it had no pipes. Besides, you'd need to have the energy source set to heat, in which case it would open a full boiler GUI when you clicked on it.

I tested around a bit with it. The boiler prototype indeed errors without fluid boxes. However I found an other class of entity. The heat-interface. If you set gui_mode = "none" it does has a GUI like a accumulator without circuit connection but without settings. One would of cause find a nice graphic for it. Maybe a battery without the animation and some added heat connectors.

oh yeah, I forgot about that thing. It's basically the same as the electric energy interface, but for heat.

I've got a question. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I searched around in this thread and couldn't find what I'm looking for.

Especially in the late game, I find myself needing to move massive amounts of liquid from here to there. My 500 boilers need water from yonder lake way over there. My plastic plant needs petgas from the refineries up north. I'd love to have a mod that incorporates high capacity pipelines, but I've got to live with what we've got.

As soon as they're introduced, I use plastic pipes for everything. So I'll place down 12 offshore pumps that each feed into a pump-4, then three spans of underground pipes, another layer of pumps, three spans of undergrounds, etc., etc. I have no idea what they best layout would be, and I'm hoping someone could tell me here.

enchant wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:47 pm

I've got a question. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I searched around in this thread and couldn't find what I'm looking for.

Especially in the late game, I find myself needing to move massive amounts of liquid from here to there. My 500 boilers need water from yonder lake way over there. My plastic plant needs petgas from the refineries up north. I'd love to have a mod that incorporates high capacity pipelines, but I've got to live with what we've got.

As soon as they're introduced, I use plastic pipes for everything. So I'll place down 12 offshore pumps that each feed into a pump-4, then three spans of underground pipes, another layer of pumps, three spans of undergrounds, etc., etc. I have no idea what they best layout would be, and I'm hoping someone could tell me here.

The best thing to do for boilers is... they just consume so much water, you should build your power plant on the shore so you don't have to ship the water very far.

For other fluids though, like petroleum gas, I'd recommend a train, with several storage tanks at either end. (Actually, I ship the oil and make the gas on site, but now that you have to worry about sulfur from the sour gas, it's a little harder to manage)

Thanks, Bob. I hate how much real estate a train station takes up, but in the end, pipes aren't a whole lot less.

enchant wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:47 pm

I've got a question. I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I searched around in this thread and couldn't find what I'm looking for.

Especially in the late game, I find myself needing to move massive amounts of liquid from here to there. My 500 boilers need water from yonder lake way over there. My plastic plant needs petgas from the refineries up north. I'd love to have a mod that incorporates high capacity pipelines, but I've got to live with what we've got.

As soon as they're introduced, I use plastic pipes for everything. So I'll place down 12 offshore pumps that each feed into a pump-4, then three spans of underground pipes, another layer of pumps, three spans of undergrounds, etc., etc. I have no idea what they best layout would be, and I'm hoping someone could tell me here.

You are on the right track (see what I did there?) if you need lots of fluids everywhere. Like bob responded, I usually keep my power plants next to water sources, it is just one less liquid to move around. Now as for other fluids, trains are the way to go to move medium to long distances. The nice part about these is that you can have the train stations pump in/out of the tank wagons very quickly. Each tank wagon can have three pumps feeding or emptying it. so what you want to do is have three pumps connecting to each "top" of the tank wagon; those pumps are connected directly to a storage tank, and then connect all of the tanks together with pipes and undergrounds to help them act as one collection. you should have three storage tanks for each tank wagon at each end of the line. I am at work now, but will share a screenshot of what I have when I get home.

Also, I control the destination station with a simple circuit network, that connects and reads from all of the storage tanks at the station, and only allow train to enter when there is enough room in the tanks to accept a full train. This makes logistics easier so that you do not have a train waiting here to drop off the fluids. With this, I can have one train manage three or more destination stations as opposed to having one train for each route. Again, I will share screenshots later.