[0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[RocketManChronicles]

These are welcomed updates. Thanks Bobingabout!

[bobingabout]

These are welcomed updates. Thanks Bobingabout!

You're welcome.

I must admit, it has been eerily quiet these past few days. Almost like people are afraid to talk in case I change something else as a result.

[RocketManChronicles]

These are welcomed updates. Thanks Bobingabout!

You're welcome.

I must admit, it has been eerily quiet these past few days. Almost like people are afraid to talk in case I change something else as a result.

That's understandable. The mods are working really well together right now. I just unlocked the mk4 robots in my playthrough; which leads me to a question:

The mk4 Fusion reactor bots, they will not need recharging? Although, the steep cost certainly makes them worth their cost.

[steinio]

These are welcomed updates. Thanks Bobingabout!

You're welcome.

I must admit, it has been eerily quiet these past few days. Almost like people are afraid to talk in case I change something else as a result.

Ha. No just everyone is busy with rebuilding basic items production after your changes.

It was a big shock like everytime but for now all is good again.

What are your next ideas?

[Kryzeth]

Is it just me, or did there used to be a car mk2 and mk3? Am I just misremembering? I only noticed now because with some ordering mods, the tanks end up a row below the car, and make it clear there's no mk2 or mk3 car. Not saying it needs to exist, but just that it stood out to me, because I swear there used to be higher tiers of cars...

[bobingabout]

Is it just me, or did there used to be a car mk2 and mk3? Am I just misremembering? I only noticed now because with some ordering mods, the tanks end up a row below the car, and make it clear there's no mk2 or mk3 car. Not saying it needs to exist, but just that it stood out to me, because I swear there used to be higher tiers of cars...

There may have been another mod that added car MK2 and MK3, but not in my mod.

What are your next ideas?

Well, I want to try and give Logistics a break, and work on something else.

I've already made the following changes that haven't been released yet:

Power:
Increased maximum fluid usage of Oil Generator to 4 per second
Fixed Steam power technology prerequisites
Replaced electrum with gold in solar panels MK3


Plates:
Updated the Logistic tab icon to use new robot graphics
Removed electrum
Added Pure water recipe colours for the chemical plant.

Electrum was only used by 1 recipe in all my mods, and I never did like the metal, since it's real world application is... to be used as a source of gold and silver. So, I removed it from my mods.
The generator, will, that's mostly because other mods like seablock change all my fuel values. setting it to 4 lets it reach it's potential in that mod. it also lets you get a little more energy per second from fuels like Hydrazine and Hydrogen.


And my to do list includes the following:

Reduce steam engine efficiency to be 100% across the board.
Add T5 steam
Remove steel furnace from boiler 2 and replace with steel pipe. Lower all science packs 1 tier.
Consider increasing heat exchanger and steam turbine temp to 515 instead of 500.
HE to ST isn't even ballanced, the HE makes 10MW of steam and the ST uses 5.8MW

electric boilers?
look at substation costs and scale up?

Currently, top end steam engines and turbines have 120% efficiency, I want to give all steam engines 100% efficiency across the board, leaving the efficiency entirely down to the boilers. This still leaves the consumption per tick, and steam temperature as upgrades for the steam engine, with Efficiency and Temperature for the boiler.
All boilers are currently tuned for 2 steam engines too, but I notice the Heat Exchangers aren't, producing 10MW of steam to power 5.8MW steam turbines. now, I know the nuclear power plant gives out a multiple of 10MW, so it's not that easy to tune things to each other, especially if you consider that a MK6 steam engine would be... pretty much the exact stats on the steam turbine if I go ahead with the temp change to 515 (this is because effective temperature is only 485 right now, because it's 500 minus starting temperature of 15, the result is a nice round 6MW steam engine, 100kJ per tick), so I was at least going to run some numbers on that to see if I could come up with anything.

To note: the previous change of adding a MK4 worked, because the old MK3 became the new MK4 with MK2 and 3 being scalled in the gap. things worked out. with a MK5, and the drop in efficiency, the new MK4 will give less power than the current one, but the new MK5 will give even more than the current MK4. like the current MK4 is between the two on the scale.


For the record, this is what we had:

Code: Select all

0.2kW * 0.5   * 60 * 150 * 1   = 900kW    (SE1 with B1)
0.2kW * 0.625 * 60 * 150 * 1.1 = 1237.5kW (SE2 with B1)
0.2kW * 0.75  * 60 * 150 * 1.2 = 1620kW   (SE3 with B1)


0.2kW * 0.625 * 60 * 220 * 1.1 = 1815kW   (SE2 with B2)
0.2kW * 0.75  * 60 * 220 * 1.2 = 2376kW   (SE3 with B2)

0.2kW * 0.625 * 60 * 260 * 1.1 = 2145kW   (Maximum of SE2)


0.2kW * 0.75  * 60 * 290 * 1.2 = 3132kW   (SE3 with B3)
0.2kW * 0.75  * 60 * 360 * 1.2 = 3888kW   (SE3 with B4)

0.2kW * 0.75  * 60 * 370 * 1.2 = 3996kW   (maximum of SE3)

This is what we have now, note the separation of steam engine efficiency from the rest of the formula.

Code: Select all

0.2kW * 0.5 * 60 * 150 =  900kW * 1     =  900kW   (SE1 with B1)
0.2kW * 0.6 * 60 * 220 = 1584kW * 1.066 = 1688.5kW (SE2 with B2)
0.2kW * 0.7 * 60 * 290 = 2436kW * 1.133 = 2760kW   (SE3 with B3)
0.2kW * 0.8 * 60 * 360 = 3456kW * 1.2   = 4147.2kW (SE4 with B4)

And this is a couple of possible options:

Code: Select all

0.2kW * 0.5 * 60 * 150 =  900kW  (SE1 with B1)
0.2kW * 0.6 * 60 * 220 = 1584kW  (SE2 with B2)
0.2kW * 0.7 * 60 * 290 = 2436kW  (SE3 with B3)
0.2kW * 0.8 * 60 * 360 = 3456kW  (SE4 with B4)
0.2kW * 0.9 * 60 * 430 = 4644kW  (SE5 with B5)


0.2kW * 0.5 * 60 * 150 =  900kW  (SE1 with B1)
0.2kW * 0.6 * 60 * 210 = 1512kW  (SE2 with B2)
0.2kW * 0.7 * 60 * 270 = 2268kW  (SE3 with B3)
0.2kW * 0.8 * 60 * 330 = 3168kW  (SE4 with B4)
0.2kW * 0.9 * 60 * 390 = 4212kW  (SE5 with B5)

the second one has a reduced maximum temperature increase per tier to try to scale the MK5 to be similar to the current MK4.

Note: all temperatures are given as max-min, not the actual temperature, meaning that 430 would be 445 in game.

[igorhgf]

I must admit, it has been eerily quiet these past few days. Almost like people are afraid to talk in case I change something else as a result.

It's the calm before the storm

[jodokus31]

I've already made the following changes that haven't been released yet:

Power:
Increased maximum fluid usage of Oil Generator to 4 per second
Fixed Steam power technology prerequisites
Replaced electrum with gold in solar panels MK3


Plates:
Updated the Logistic tab icon to use new robot graphics
Removed electrum
Added Pure water recipe colours for the chemical plant.

Electrum was only used by 1 recipe in all my mods, and I never did like the metal, since it's real world application is... to be used as a source of gold and silver. So, I removed it from my mods.
The generator, will, that's mostly because other mods like seablock change all my fuel values. setting it to 4 lets it reach it's potential in that mod. it also lets you get a little more energy per second from fuels like Hydrazine and Hydrogen.

I checked for electrum in seablock pack. There seems to be one additional recipe in sciencecostweaker (https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ScienceCostTweakerM), which is in the chain of high tech science:

Bildschirmfoto vom 2018-04-13 11-59-34.png (114.62 KiB) Viewed 5590 times

[mexmer]

I've already made the following changes that haven't been released yet:

Power:
Increased maximum fluid usage of Oil Generator to 4 per second
Fixed Steam power technology prerequisites
Replaced electrum with gold in solar panels MK3


Plates:
Updated the Logistic tab icon to use new robot graphics
Removed electrum
Added Pure water recipe colours for the chemical plant.

Electrum was only used by 1 recipe in all my mods, and I never did like the metal, since it's real world application is... to be used as a source of gold and silver. So, I removed it from my mods.
The generator, will, that's mostly because other mods like seablock change all my fuel values. setting it to 4 lets it reach it's potential in that mod. it also lets you get a little more energy per second from fuels like Hydrazine and Hydrogen.

I checked for electrum in seablock pack. There seems to be one additional recipe in sciencecostweaker (https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ScienceCostTweakerM), which is in the chain of high tech science:

Bildschirmfoto vom 2018-04-13 11-59-34.png

i suspect this is something done by TrainWreck, since in SCT thermal store only requires copper plate

Code: Select all

	{
		type = "recipe",
		name = "sct-htech-thermalstore",
		category = "advanced-crafting",
		icon_size = 32,
		icon = "__ScienceCostTweakerM__/graphics/icons/sct-htech-thermalstore.png",
		subgroup = "sct-sciencepack-hightech",
		order = "b[thermalstore]",
		enabled = "false",
		energy_required = 3.5,
		ingredients =
		{
			{type="item", name="copper-plate", amount=40}
		},
		results = 
		{
			{type="item", name="sct-htech-thermalstore", amount=1},
			{type="item", name="sct-waste-copperonly", amount=1}
		},
	},

[ukezi]

That is science cost tweaker.

Code: Select all

	data.raw.recipe["sct-htech-thermalstore"].ingredients =
	{
		{type="item", name="electrum-alloy", amount=20},
		{type="item", name="cobalt-steel-alloy", amount=20}
	}

in the bob's tweaks. The part you posted is for vanilla. that can easy be replaced. Electrum for that is silly anyway.

[mexmer]

That is science cost tweaker.

Code: Select all

	data.raw.recipe["sct-htech-thermalstore"].ingredients =
	{
		{type="item", name="electrum-alloy", amount=20},
		{type="item", name="cobalt-steel-alloy", amount=20}
	}

in the bob's tweaks. The part you posted is for vanilla. that can easy be replaced. Electrum for that is silly anyway.

ah right, my bad.
i will look at that later today, and think about replacement.

will need to recheck tech tree.

problem will be with migration tho' since people might have already setup for electrum and then it will stop working.

[bobingabout]

That is science cost tweaker.

Code: Select all

	data.raw.recipe["sct-htech-thermalstore"].ingredients =
	{
		{type="item", name="electrum-alloy", amount=20},
		{type="item", name="cobalt-steel-alloy", amount=20}
	}

in the bob's tweaks. The part you posted is for vanilla. that can easy be replaced. Electrum for that is silly anyway.

ah right, my bad.
i will look at that later today, and think about replacement.

will need to recheck tech tree.

problem will be with migration tho' since people might have already setup for electrum and then it will stop working.

I have considered that too, but haven't done anything about it yet. Considering I replaced Electrum with Gold in the one recipe that uses it, plus gold being a component, I have considered adding a migration to turn it into gold.

I'm not sure it quite fits the usage for a high tech science item though, but that is what I've been considering.

[mexmer]

That is science cost tweaker.

Code: Select all

	data.raw.recipe["sct-htech-thermalstore"].ingredients =
	{
		{type="item", name="electrum-alloy", amount=20},
		{type="item", name="cobalt-steel-alloy", amount=20}
	}

in the bob's tweaks. The part you posted is for vanilla. that can easy be replaced. Electrum for that is silly anyway.

ah right, my bad.
i will look at that later today, and think about replacement.

will need to recheck tech tree.

problem will be with migration tho' since people might have already setup for electrum and then it will stop working.

I have considered that too, but haven't done anything about it yet. Considering I replaced Electrum with Gold in the one recipe that uses it, plus gold being a component, I have considered adding a migration to turn it into gold.

I'm not sure it quite fits the usage for a high tech science item though, but that is what I've been considering.

i was thinking about gold or aluminium.
While gold makes more sense as electrum replacement (since it's mainly gold and some silver), aluminium looks like better option, technology progress wise.

[bobingabout]

That is science cost tweaker.

Code: Select all

	data.raw.recipe["sct-htech-thermalstore"].ingredients =
	{
		{type="item", name="electrum-alloy", amount=20},
		{type="item", name="cobalt-steel-alloy", amount=20}
	}

in the bob's tweaks. The part you posted is for vanilla. that can easy be replaced. Electrum for that is silly anyway.

ah right, my bad.
i will look at that later today, and think about replacement.

will need to recheck tech tree.

problem will be with migration tho' since people might have already setup for electrum and then it will stop working.

I have considered that too, but haven't done anything about it yet. Considering I replaced Electrum with Gold in the one recipe that uses it, plus gold being a component, I have considered adding a migration to turn it into gold.

I'm not sure it quite fits the usage for a high tech science item though, but that is what I've been considering.

i was thinking about gold or aluminium.
While gold makes more sense as electrum replacement (since it's mainly gold and some silver), aluminium looks like better option, technology progress wise.

If the cobalt is an indication of tech level this is oriented at, then I'd agree with Aluminium.

[mexmer]

That is science cost tweaker.

Code: Select all

	data.raw.recipe["sct-htech-thermalstore"].ingredients =
	{
		{type="item", name="electrum-alloy", amount=20},
		{type="item", name="cobalt-steel-alloy", amount=20}
	}

in the bob's tweaks. The part you posted is for vanilla. that can easy be replaced. Electrum for that is silly anyway.

ah right, my bad.
i will look at that later today, and think about replacement.

will need to recheck tech tree.

problem will be with migration tho' since people might have already setup for electrum and then it will stop working.

I have considered that too, but haven't done anything about it yet. Considering I replaced Electrum with Gold in the one recipe that uses it, plus gold being a component, I have considered adding a migration to turn it into gold.

I'm not sure it quite fits the usage for a high tech science item though, but that is what I've been considering.

i was thinking about gold or aluminium.
While gold makes more sense as electrum replacement (since it's mainly gold and some silver), aluminium looks like better option, technology progress wise.

If the cobalt is an indication of tech level this is oriented at, then I'd agree with Aluminium.

that recipe is from uberwaffe, so i can only guess, since he is not playing anymore, and not developing SCT.

but i think gold is quite low tech compared to electrum anyways. not sure who else and where uses electrum.

not sure, how to write migration tho', if i should just override all requester boxes ... also there will be problems with people having setup production chain for electrum ...

might just set it, so it will check for electrum (eg. someone using old mod), and it will leave recipe as is, and if electrum is not present, i will set it to use aluminium. and leave fixing broken production chain up to players

[bobingabout]

that recipe is from uberwaffe, so i can only guess, since he is not playing anymore, and not developing SCT.

but i think gold is quite low tech compared to electrum anyways. not sure who else and where uses electrum.

not sure, how to write migration tho', if i should just override all requester boxes ... also there will be problems with people having setup production chain for electrum ...

might just set it, so it will check for electrum (eg. someone using old mod), and it will leave recipe as is, and if electrum is not present, i will set it to use aluminium. and leave fixing broken production chain up to players

That's basically what I'd do.

[RocketManChronicles]

Kind of sad to see Electrum go. I was hoping it would make an appearance in another recipe, particularly something to do with the rocket components. But, since it only has one recipe it is not a total loss.

[jodokus31]

I think a rather high tier material is valid to use here, since its high tech science:
- Tungsten plate?
- Tungsten carbide? (production science needed)
- Copper-tungsten? (production science needed)
- Nickel plate? Not very advanced, but not used anywhere else. (Maybe also a subject to remove?)
- Zinc plate? Not very advanced, but not used in high quantities beside battery2

[bobingabout]

I think a rather high tier material is valid to use here, since its high tech science:
- Tungsten plate?
- Tungsten carbide? (production science needed)
- Copper-tungsten? (production science needed)
- Nickel plate? Not very advanced, but not used anywhere else. (Maybe also a subject to remove?)
- Zinc plate? Not very advanced, but not used in high quantities beside battery2

I'd consider Tungsten, or Titanium if you want a slightly higher tech. Perhaps Ceramic. Titanium is a bit overused though.

[mexmer]

OK, checked the tree, and seems Tungsten will be matererial of choice, there are only 3 materials at that level, titanium, tungsten and ceramic.

titanium is overused, and ceramic doesn't exactly sit in there. aluminium in the end is just that cheap to produce, that doesn't fit tier.

edit. will go with copper-tungsten, which is also used in other hightech components.