Factorio Forums

Why are the science requirements for base-game logistics equipment not tweaked at all? You can get cargo robots and the corresponding big chests almost immediately after hitting green science, but the small chests are locked with regular logistics or construction robots far, far deeper in the green tech tree. And despite buffer big chests being immediately obtainable after getting cargo robots (as your third green tech!), you still need far more kinds of science to get to the small ones.

(this is made even worse by silos and warehouses in Angel's, since those are at blue tech for all varieties).

alercah wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2019 3:25 am

Why are the science requirements for base-game logistics equipment not tweaked at all? You can get cargo robots and the corresponding big chests almost immediately after hitting green science, but the small chests are locked with regular logistics or construction robots far, far deeper in the green tech tree. And despite buffer big chests being immediately obtainable after getting cargo robots (as your third green tech!), you still need far more kinds of science to get to the small ones.

(this is made even worse by silos and warehouses in Angel's, since those are at blue tech for all varieties).

You've lost me.
Cargo robots, Big chests and big buffer chests aren't part of bob's mods.

Also, my MK2 logistic chests are locked behind Production/BobLogistic science. I make many tweaks to the logistic tree, for example, you actually unlock the requester chest with logistic robots, and the science pack requirement for the logistics network (to unlock active provider and buffer chests(and in base game, requester chests)) is significantly reduced from base game, locked only behind chemical science instead of utility.

Over-all, Way easier to set up a logistic network in Bob's mods than base game.

Oh, oops, I must have been misinformed. I thought they were Bob's, not Angel's. I'll take a look later to figure out which mods are involved here.

question is your rocket fuel supost to be free once you have solar power seem too easy

mmppolton wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:45 am

question is your rocket fuel supost to be free once you have solar power seem too easy

The difficulty is supposed to be in the complexity.

now, in theory you could just slap 1 machine making each recipe, but you'll run into issues such as byproduct overflow. you get pure water out of one of the factories, you have to deal with that, you can't just void it. and the input gasses (Oxygen, Hydrogen and Nitrogen) are out of balance.
If you rig up a system where it doesn't back itself up, the reward is fuel at the cost of only water, air and electricity, which are all technically infinite.
Even more satisfaction if you manage to make a perfectly balanced factory where everything runs 100%. I managed to do that with the exception of the water -> pure water distilling process.
note: you produce excess oxygen, but you can either vent it, or use it in another process.

Option on the mods out there to nerf your modules some YouTube people I watch stop play the mod become of how op the module are

mmppolton wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:16 pm

Option on the mods out there to nerf your modules some YouTube people I watch stop play the mod become of how op the module are

there's a whole settings section to let you choose your own numbers for them.

It's still going to take it up to 8 tiers, but you can turn off module merging, leaving you with only the classic 3, plus pollution cleaning and polluting modules.
then you can turn on "Productivity costs speed" to make it have the negative side effect on speed, and then... like I said, a huge wall of numbers so you can nerf them however much you want.

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:47 pm

mmppolton wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:16 pm

Option on the mods out there to nerf your modules some YouTube people I watch stop play the mod become of how op the module are

there's a whole settings section to let you choose your own numbers for them.

It's still going to take it up to 8 tiers, but you can turn off module merging, leaving you with only the classic 3, plus pollution cleaning and polluting modules.
then you can turn on "Productivity costs speed" to make it have the negative side effect on speed, and then... like I said, a huge wall of numbers so you can nerf them however much you want.

This is how I play Bob's modules now: no merged modules, no God modules, speed penalty on production modules, and I have even tweaked the numbers on the bonuses of each module to get a more balanced and reasonable set of bonuses. Obviously, I use more beacons to really pump up the speed. The energy costs for those beacons is astronomical, but I can produce so much more with fewer total assembling machines, making it worth the cost in energy and modules. There has to be a set of negatives to using them, so basically I pay for the bonuses in energy (HUGE amounts) and pollution (Biter attacks) costs.

Bob,

Not sure if this is something you can do at the mod level, but the devs moved my bug report over to "it's a feature." Any chance that the modding API gives you the ability to link the storage space used by robots in multiple cargo wagons on the same train? If not, then totally understand, just thought that I'd ask.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72277

evandy wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:02 pm

Bob,

Not sure if this is something you can do at the mod level, but the devs moved my bug report over to "it's a feature." Any chance that the modding API gives you the ability to link the storage space used by robots in multiple cargo wagons on the same train? If not, then totally understand, just thought that I'd ask.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72277

I've been asked before.
it's not possible.

The personal roboport is designed to operate on a single entity, your character. The vehicle roboport is basically just a clone of the personal roboport with a filter set to fit in vehicles instead of armor.
Therefore, when used on a vehicle such as a cargo-wagon, it's still operating on a single entity system, and can only interact with the inventory of that single entity. It doesn't know the concept of a train or linked entities, and changing that isn't something you can do on a modding level.

Well, there might be if you go the heavy scripting voodoo (multiple prototype entities) route, I've seen some crazy things people have done with that, but it's very CPU intensive, which is why I try to avoid it. The current system is basically handled entirely with game engine level code. (IE, no scripting involved)

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:25 pm

I've been asked before.
it's not possible.

The personal roboport is designed to operate on a single entity, your character. The vehicle roboport is basically just a clone of the personal roboport with a filter set to fit in vehicles instead of armor.
Therefore, when used on a vehicle such as a cargo-wagon, it's still operating on a single entity system, and can only interact with the inventory of that single entity. It doesn't know the concept of a train or linked entities, and changing that isn't something you can do on a modding level.

Well, there might be if you go the heavy scripting voodoo (multiple prototype entities) route, I've seen some crazy things people have done with that, but it's very CPU intensive, which is why I try to avoid it. The current system is basically handled entirely with game engine level code. (IE, no scripting involved)

Drat. CPU intensive is probably not the way to go, so I guess that I'll just have to hope the devs consider adding it to the base game some day.

Thanks for the reply.

evandy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:14 am

bobingabout wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:25 pm

Well, there might be if you go the heavy scripting voodoo (multiple prototype entities) route, I've seen some crazy things people have done with that, but it's very CPU intensive, which is why I try to avoid it.

Drat. CPU intensive is probably not the way to go, so I guess that I'll just have to hope the devs consider adding it to the base game some day.

As a hobby facto-voodoo practitioner let me write down some thoughts about the possibility of scripting this. (Note: I do not intend to implement this ever, i just write it down for fun.)

As @bob rightly noted roboports are the only thing that support "joining" networks. As such any such approach short of implementing a lua-side robot network (read: "writing a completely new game inside factorio") will have to use them. For a basic implementation you'd thus have to teleport some invisible roboports onto the train every tick. But roboports don't have chests so you'd have to also teleport some storage chests onto the train every tick. That's basically what every "logistic cargo wagons" mod does except they only need to do it when the train stops which is several orders of magnitude cheaper. So, now that we have invisible chests on the wagons we also need to somehow intercept all interaction with the wagons and redirect it to the chests. This would at best work half of the time and even then involve a lot of expensive voodoo magic. It's also nessecitate deactivating the build capability in any situation where inserters could interact with the wagons. Onto the next problem...roboports join with all other roboports, but we don't want our train to join the factory network. So we'd have to make the train network be on another force (read: "team"). Forces are a limited resource - only 64 can exist in parralell and some other mods use them too. So in order to be not too intrusive we should only use one. Now this sadly implies that while the train will not join the base network it'll join any *other trains* network, so you better keep your construction trains seperate. Also having stuff on a different force is in general kinda annoying to manage too, but at least it doesn't cost any performance as such.

Did a quick test and... completely unexpectedly (*cough*) the robots lose their orientation every time the roboport is teleported. Which realistically means that doing it while the train is moving is not an option. But while we're stopped we already have to deactivate the roboports due to the chest logic.

Conclusion: Even with scripting it's impossible to make this work properly.

Please include a tooltip for the fuel value for burnable liquids, i have a hard time finding them and judging if building the liquid burners is worth it.

wattihrvolt wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:45 am

Please include a tooltip for the fuel value for burnable liquids, i have a hard time finding them and judging if building the liquid burners is worth it.

I can't control what tooltips appear on Liquids, because they're not an item, that's down to the game engine.
and I'm fairly sure if you point to an entity, the info that shows on the right tells you the fuel value of any fluids in the pipes that have one.

Hey Bob,

Love the mods! I just started a new game with all of your mods and it's very complex, I'm really liking it.

One puzzle I solved today was the fertilizer production chain. It's basically free, I just had to figure out how to set it up and produce everything in the correct ratios. Very cool!

I would really like additional fueled 2x2 furnace tiers however. I have electric ones but they really only get valuable with modules, and those are their own little nightmare I haven't even tackled yet. Not to mention their crazy power usage once they get maxed out on speed modules.

If there were additional 2x2 fueled furnaces that would fill that gap. And maybe even a production chain for better fuel? Coal coke maybe. Just a thought.

Thanks for all the work, it's amazing.

Forgebench wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:38 am

Hey Bob,

Love the mods! I just started a new game with all of your mods and it's very complex, I'm really liking it.

One puzzle I solved today was the fertilizer production chain. It's basically free, I just had to figure out how to set it up and produce everything in the correct ratios. Very cool!

I would really like additional fueled 2x2 furnace tiers however. I have electric ones but they really only get valuable with modules, and those are their own little nightmare I haven't even tackled yet. Not to mention their crazy power usage once they get maxed out on speed modules.

If there were additional 2x2 fueled furnaces that would fill that gap. And maybe even a production chain for better fuel? Coal coke maybe. Just a thought.

Thanks for all the work, it's amazing.

Someone recently made a bob-compatible additional furnaces mod.
I'd link it if I could find it >.>

As for better fuels...
Added wood pellets for that recently in the greenhouse.
but you also have Solid fuel, Enriched fuel, Rocket fuel and Nuclear fuel for item-burning powered entities.
You also have Liquid fuel and Petroleum Gas for oil based, or Hydrazine for Free based liquid fuel powered entities.

Inserters lose configuration when you use an upgrade planner on a blueprint (Including the temporary blueprint you get from shifting while copying).

I don't know what, if anything, can be done about that, but I have learnt to turn bots off, blueprint, upgrade plan the ghosts, then re-blueprint as a workaround.

Jemsterr wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:58 am

Inserters lose configuration when you use an upgrade planner on a blueprint (Including the temporary blueprint you get from shifting while copying).

I don't know what, if anything, can be done about that, but I have learnt to turn bots off, blueprint, upgrade plan the ghosts, then re-blueprint as a workaround.

I've never really tried to do use an upgrade planner on a blueprint before, usually I just use them straight on whatever is in the world.

However, I'd say that's a base game issue, and should be reported, since, as you pointed out, there's nothing I can really do, two base game objects interacting with each other.

pickup/drop positions are also handled entirely by the game engine, the most a script can do is set them, but they're usually kept in blueprints and ghosts, and if using a blueprint planner on the real object doesn't break them, along with the blueprint being able to hold the information about it, then using the upgrade planner on the blueprint shouldn't break them either.

Will do. I had no idea that the inserter options were in the base game (hidden, of course?). I thought they were unique to the modded world.

Jemsterr wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:02 am

Will do. I had no idea that the inserter options were in the base game (hidden, of course?). I thought they were unique to the modded world.

they're only USED by the modded world, but it's literally just using a script to set the new position. Once the position has been set, it's handled entirely by the game engine.