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Please correct me if I'm addressing the wrong mod/modder here. I've only accessed the glorious madness that is your mods through seablock, but I had a question that always bugged me.

The green science line (The ATMOS whajimagig) requires a number steps of wafers and stamps to make this ATMOS component that looks like a circuit. Is there an intended reason those items can't be made using the electronic assembling machines?

hewhoispale wrote:Please correct me if I'm addressing the wrong mod/modder here. I've only accessed the glorious madness that is your mods through seablock, but I had a question that always bugged me.

The green science line (The ATMOS whajimagig) requires a number steps of wafers and stamps to make this ATMOS component that looks like a circuit. Is there an intended reason those items can't be made using the electronic assembling machines?

ATMOS is not a bob's mods item.

bobingabout wrote:

hewhoispale wrote:Please correct me if I'm addressing the wrong mod/modder here. I've only accessed the glorious madness that is your mods through seablock, but I had a question that always bugged me.

The green science line (The ATMOS whajimagig) requires a number steps of wafers and stamps to make this ATMOS component that looks like a circuit. Is there an intended reason those items can't be made using the electronic assembling machines?

ATMOS is not a bob's mods item.

If you like ATMOS and if you know the reference i recommend you the ssd: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Sonic_Screw_Driver

ATMOS is an item of ScienceCostTweaker.
Current fork: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ScienceCostTweakerM

Electronic assembly maschines are only for circuit related intermediates from Bob's.
Maybe Bob is this kind to add a compatibility patch but i can not garanty this.

bobingabout wrote:

hewhoispale wrote:Please correct me if I'm addressing the wrong mod/modder here. I've only accessed the glorious madness that is your mods through seablock, but I had a question that always bugged me.

The green science line (The ATMOS whajimagig) requires a number steps of wafers and stamps to make this ATMOS component that looks like a circuit. Is there an intended reason those items can't be made using the electronic assembling machines?

ATMOS is not a bob's mods item.

steinio wrote:

bobingabout wrote:

hewhoispale wrote:Please correct me if I'm addressing the wrong mod/modder here. I've only accessed the glorious madness that is your mods through seablock, but I had a question that always bugged me.

The green science line (The ATMOS whajimagig) requires a number steps of wafers and stamps to make this ATMOS component that looks like a circuit. Is there an intended reason those items can't be made using the electronic assembling machines?

ATMOS is not a bob's mods item.

If you like ATMOS and if you know the reference i recommend you the ssd: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Sonic_Screw_Driver

ATMOS is an item of ScienceCostTweaker.
Current fork: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ScienceCostTweakerM

Electronic assembly maschines are only for circuit related intermediates from Bob's.
Maybe Bob is this kind to add a compatibility patch but i can not garanty this.

Ah, my bad. I briefly scanned science cost tweaker, but missed that it the mod it's based off of also changed science production. I thought it was an off-shoot of bobscience, since it has a whole bunch of intermediate steps and specialized not-buildings to make science packs out of.
I'm not familiar with the actual modding process and wasn't sure if electronics assembler worked off of any product in a category or if individual recipes needed to note what machines are valid to use them or some other thing. I'm guessing this would be a thing to ask if Seablock's mod would be interested in since it's from distinct mod sources.

Sorry for the confusion.

danyax wrote:Hi Bob,

I wonder what is the practical difference between Pumps MK1-MK4? I did a lot of experiments with fluid pumping and all of them produce exactly the same results regardless of pump type. Even is the simplest test "storage tank - pump - storage tank" all pumps have exactly the same throughoutput.

Bob, any hint on this question?

danyax wrote:

danyax wrote:Hi Bob,

I wonder what is the practical difference between Pumps MK1-MK4? I did a lot of experiments with fluid pumping and all of them produce exactly the same results regardless of pump type. Even is the simplest test "storage tank - pump - storage tank" all pumps have exactly the same throughoutput.

Bob, any hint on this question?

It's disappointing to think about. they do actually all have different pumping speeds, 200 for the base game version, 300 for MK2, 400 for MK3 and 500 for MK4.
I basically just updated the entities that already existed when they changed the way pumps work back when they added the fluid wagon, I hadn't actually done any tests to know they were all effectively the same.

I guess if the higher tiers are pointless, I could just remove them.

hasn't the base game one now a throughput of 12k/s? also as we are at it, can you equalize the size of the pipes? size 50 gives still unstable simulation and I don't think size 20 gives any additional throughput. I also like the multiple of 10 belt speed variants.

I found one bug when upgrading power armor 2 to power armor 3 items in equipment grid is lost.

that is normal and that way in the base game.

ukezi wrote:hasn't the base game one now a throughput of 12k/s? also as we are at it, can you equalize the size of the pipes? size 50 gives still unstable simulation and I don't think size 20 gives any additional throughput. I also like the multiple of 10 belt speed variants.

I did that already, in the latest version they should already all be size 10.

pertm wrote:I found one bug when upgrading power armor 2 to power armor 3 items in equipment grid is lost.

unfortunately, an old bug that I can't do anything about. this is why in the base game you don't upgrade 1 to 2.

Well, I COULD do something about it, I could remove power armor 2 from power armor 3's recipe, and the same with the others, but that's the only thing I can do to stop this.

bobingabout wrote:

danyax wrote:

danyax wrote:Hi Bob,

I wonder what is the practical difference between Pumps MK1-MK4? I did a lot of experiments with fluid pumping and all of them produce exactly the same results regardless of pump type. Even is the simplest test "storage tank - pump - storage tank" all pumps have exactly the same throughoutput.

Bob, any hint on this question?

It's disappointing to think about. they do actually all have different pumping speeds, 200 for the base game version, 300 for MK2, 400 for MK3 and 500 for MK4.
I basically just updated the entities that already existed when they changed the way pumps work back when they added the fluid wagon, I hadn't actually done any tests to know they were all effectively the same.

I guess if the higher tiers are pointless, I could just remove them.

Might need some testing but it could be that they need to have bigger fluid boxes to be able to pump faster?

orzelek wrote:

bobingabout wrote:It's disappointing to think about. they do actually all have different pumping speeds, 200 for the base game version, 300 for MK2, 400 for MK3 and 500 for MK4.
I basically just updated the entities that already existed when they changed the way pumps work back when they added the fluid wagon, I hadn't actually done any tests to know they were all effectively the same.

I guess if the higher tiers are pointless, I could just remove them.

Might need some testing but it could be that they need to have bigger fluid boxes to be able to pump faster?

That is actually a brilliant suggestion, and makes me wonder why I didn't think of it. Definitely worth trying before I consider removing it.

bobingabout wrote:

orzelek wrote:

bobingabout wrote:It's disappointing to think about. they do actually all have different pumping speeds, 200 for the base game version, 300 for MK2, 400 for MK3 and 500 for MK4.
I basically just updated the entities that already existed when they changed the way pumps work back when they added the fluid wagon, I hadn't actually done any tests to know they were all effectively the same.

I guess if the higher tiers are pointless, I could just remove them.

Might need some testing but it could be that they need to have bigger fluid boxes to be able to pump faster?

That is actually a brilliant suggestion, and makes me wonder why I didn't think of it. Definitely worth trying before I consider removing it.

Or if they are at the max speed the game allows maybe make mk1 slower. The mk1 pump feels rather fast already. Loading a fluid wagon is near instant compared to filling a train car with yellow inserters.

mrvn wrote:

bobingabout wrote:

orzelek wrote:

bobingabout wrote:It's disappointing to think about. they do actually all have different pumping speeds, 200 for the base game version, 300 for MK2, 400 for MK3 and 500 for MK4.
I basically just updated the entities that already existed when they changed the way pumps work back when they added the fluid wagon, I hadn't actually done any tests to know they were all effectively the same.

I guess if the higher tiers are pointless, I could just remove them.

Might need some testing but it could be that they need to have bigger fluid boxes to be able to pump faster?

That is actually a brilliant suggestion, and makes me wonder why I didn't think of it. Definitely worth trying before I consider removing it.

Or if they are at the max speed the game allows maybe make mk1 slower. The mk1 pump feels rather fast already. Loading a fluid wagon is near instant compared to filling a train car with yellow inserters.

I would not object to this.

RocketManChronicles wrote:

mrvn wrote:

bobingabout wrote:

orzelek wrote:

bobingabout wrote:It's disappointing to think about. they do actually all have different pumping speeds, 200 for the base game version, 300 for MK2, 400 for MK3 and 500 for MK4.
I basically just updated the entities that already existed when they changed the way pumps work back when they added the fluid wagon, I hadn't actually done any tests to know they were all effectively the same.

I guess if the higher tiers are pointless, I could just remove them.

Might need some testing but it could be that they need to have bigger fluid boxes to be able to pump faster?

That is actually a brilliant suggestion, and makes me wonder why I didn't think of it. Definitely worth trying before I consider removing it.

Or if they are at the max speed the game allows maybe make mk1 slower. The mk1 pump feels rather fast already. Loading a fluid wagon is near instant compared to filling a train car with yellow inserters.

I would not object to this.

Another thought in that direction: With fluid wagons having 1/3rd the size now they fill up 3 times as fast. For the same fluid/s you now need 3 fluid wagons and can use 9 pumps instead of 3. So shouldn't pumps fill a fluid wagon at 1/3rd the speed to balance things back to where they where? Unfortunately I don't think you can make pumps on fluid wagons slower without making them slower for pipes too. But that might be OK too.

mrvn wrote:
Another thought in that direction: With fluid wagons having 1/3rd the size now they fill up 3 times as fast. For the same fluid/s you now need 3 fluid wagons and can use 9 pumps instead of 3. So shouldn't pumps fill a fluid wagon at 1/3rd the speed to balance things back to where they where? Unfortunately I don't think you can make pumps on fluid wagons slower without making them slower for pipes too. But that might be OK too.

Yeah, makes sense. Currently, I place three pumps per wagon, which either fills or empties it in less than two seconds. This is for the mk1 fluid wagons.

RocketManChronicles wrote:

mrvn wrote:
Another thought in that direction: With fluid wagons having 1/3rd the size now they fill up 3 times as fast. For the same fluid/s you now need 3 fluid wagons and can use 9 pumps instead of 3. So shouldn't pumps fill a fluid wagon at 1/3rd the speed to balance things back to where they where? Unfortunately I don't think you can make pumps on fluid wagons slower without making them slower for pipes too. But that might be OK too.

Yeah, makes sense. Currently, I place three pumps per wagon, which either fills or empties it in less than two seconds. This is for the mk1 fluid wagons.

I think there are no mk2 fluid wagons. Only armored ones.

mrvn wrote:

RocketManChronicles wrote:

mrvn wrote:
Another thought in that direction: With fluid wagons having 1/3rd the size now they fill up 3 times as fast. For the same fluid/s you now need 3 fluid wagons and can use 9 pumps instead of 3. So shouldn't pumps fill a fluid wagon at 1/3rd the speed to balance things back to where they where? Unfortunately I don't think you can make pumps on fluid wagons slower without making them slower for pipes too. But that might be OK too.

Yeah, makes sense. Currently, I place three pumps per wagon, which either fills or empties it in less than two seconds. This is for the mk1 fluid wagons.

I think there are no mk2 fluid wagons. Only armored ones.

There is a MK2 and MK3 fluid wagon, as well as an Armored and Armored MK2 fluid wagon. it's the same for the locomotive and cargo wagon.
The only exception comes with the Artillery wagon, where having a distinction between Armored and not is pointless because it's combat oriented, unlike the rest which are Logistics oriented.

bobingabout wrote:Tell me. What do you like about my mod (favourite features, favourite mod, etc)

It's been a while since I ran it, but the flexible inserters are definately my favorite part. They can make the complexity of this mod somewhat more managable by being able to throw products around at different angles.

And also, probably more importantly (I can't fix things if I don't know they're broken) what do you dislike about the mod?

Resource bottlenecking. An unlucky roll on the map, for instance with a very low amount of Tin, means you'll not be producing Electronics, means you'll not be producing... well... anything. On my first playthrough I set myself very generous resource options with RSO. Large ore fields, infinite ore fields... it took me forever to find Bauxite, which rapidly bottlenecked my entire production chain at lower tech. Not sure what can be done about it though...
Recommendation: Keep very low tech limited to using copper/iron. The very basics. You'll usually be okay on those.

What's the purpose of the mod setting "powerless inserters"? Looks like cheating.