Bob mods for 0.12 General Topic.

[Lee_newsum]

can you all the "data", "control" and "info" into one file(all data in to one ect)then drop all over in there foldes? Can link data?

[NorNogaAdmin]

can you all the "data", "control" and "info" into one file(all data in to one ect)then drop all over in there foldes? Can link data?

I don't think he wants to do that. it would be a many hour project for him. also, he did design these mos to be modular so people can pick and choose what they want to play with. i see no reason to make it one file ether because there will not be any performance improvements at all.

[bobingabout]

Yeah, I thought I addressed that, on the first post of this page. Merging all mods together would be a lot more work than simply adding the contents of data.lua together, because all the graphics assets in all the mods list their own mod specifically. all these would need manually editing to work in a unified mod.

This would also mean maintining a duplicate version of the mod specifically to have the merged package...

I could provide a single file that you have to extract to make downloading easier, but otherwise... what is the harm in my mod being 12 mods instead of 1? As said, it allows people to pick and choose which parts they want, and leave out those they don't want.

As for performance, the assets would load the same speed no matter which way it was programmed, you might save a tiny fraction of the loading time when it pauses at the 10% phase, that's it.


Also, if you're asking if YOU can do it, the answer is no. the liscencing of my mods specifically states that any redistribution is "As is", meaning if you change it, you arn't allowed to redistribute.
The exception to that rule is the config file. And info.json's dependencies line IF it is required as a compatabillity fix.

[bobingabout]

Because it was in the wrong forum x3.

Electronics mod:
coloured wire overide: They now cost an insulated wire instead of copper wire and Electronic Circuits.
Added in basic electronic board overide for DyTech's Frame 1.
Removed carbon. Basic Electronics recipe will use carbon if found, or coal if it isn't. (Carbon too hard to craft without plates bug fix)
Changed technology "robotics" prerequisites from "advanced-electronics-2" to "advanced-electronics"
Adjusted times of Basic Circuit Board and Basic Electronic Board.

Ores mod:
Fixed NickelGivesCobalt check on the Galena check for no Nickel.

power:
Added vehicle impact sounds and pipe cover graphics

Enemies:
Fixed behemoth loot checks to not cause an error if small artifacts are turned off.
Behemoth means really really big. Made Behemoth biter/spitter size 2 (double that of big biter)
Increased new spawner health and adjusted resistances.

warfare:
Increased sniper turret range by 5

Modules:
Added a function to add items to module prodictivity limitations list.
Added a config option to turn productivity limitations on. (Warning: the game will delete any modules that do not match the limits)

plates:
Added "crafting-machine" catagory to all machines with "crafting" catagory in the updates phase, Since it is used for a few things.

logistics:
added "fast-replaceable-no-build-while-moving" to all pipe to ground varients

[Lee_newsum]

what is the harm in my mod being 12 mods instead of 1? As said,

if i play with bob mods i play with all 12, for me playing with some duts not play rith. to me bob mods (all 12) in ONE mod to me.

it allows people to pick and choose which parts they want, and leave out those they don't want.

i like we can pick and choose what parts to play.

In the end this is your work and i like it a lot with lots of games and h played.
at what pint does parts of some think make some think?

[bobingabout]

A few updates. I've been working on re-writing the ores mod for days.

Ores 0.12.4:
Added lots of new functions for generating resource data.
All ores are now generated by functions from a table.
Decreased gem ores "Richness". (Less ore in a tile)
Increased Lead and Quartz starting area spawn amounts to be the same as base game stone.

MCI 0.12.5:
Changed technology "robotics" prerequisites from "advanced-electronics-2" to "advanced-electronics"
Completed technology-updates file to use functions.
7 Lead ore, 3 Carbon, and 1 Zinc plate will result in 7 to 10 Lead plates, and 1 to 3 units of Silver ore (fake Silver-zinc Alloy)
Uses the new bobores layout to turn on the "Needed" ores (The ones that were on by default before)

Assembly machines 0.12.3:
Automation 6 compatabillity fix.

[Neowulf]

guys i need your help ... i think i realy broke my game. I installed all of Bob's mods and restartet the game for it to work and if I try to start it all i get is allways at the 2% of the loading screen. i tried to fix it a bit and some time ago i could start the game if i set all the mods in the mod file to "false". but now even that doesn't work. so i can't start the game in any way...
any of u know sth about that.

[bobingabout]

huge-explosion was one of the huge pains in the backside when I was trying to convert my mods to work on 0.12. It was renamed to medium-explosion.

Make sure if you are using bob's mods that you are using those for 0.12.x.

If you remove/update the mods and still get the error, I sugest you check to see if there are any other "old" mods in the folder, and remove them, and if the problem persists, re-downlaod the game.

[Neowulf]

yeah redownloaded everything at it worked perfectly fine
thanks for the realy fast answer to be honest I didn't expect u to be so fast

[bobingabout]

I try to check the forums at least once a day. but can as often as once an hour, depending on situation.

[Athmagor]

Hi Bobingabout,

Let me firstly congratulate you on creating, in my opinion, _the_ best complete overhaul mod for Factorio.
Currently I'm at around 100h played with the mod suite (everything installed, mostly default settings) and I have to admit - I haven't had that much fun with Factorio in a long time.

I have protected the fleet multiple times, have sent a couple of rockets. I kinda lost interest in the game when everything became so familiar and fairly easy to implement (big fan of the bus design).

When I looked at the mods, DyTech, Yuoki and 5Dim didn't somehow speak to me - I felt they were either completely out there or expanded just for the sake of it. Only when I saw Bob's I saw the complete picture and vision. From resources, through intermediates, logistics, to warfare - they all make sense and what's more - they seem to be finished with high polish (text, description, graphics). That's a job well done!

When playing with the mod suite one can experience distinct phases of the game:
1. starting
Playing with the first level of everything, the productivity of those machines, belts and inserters is not that high, so the only way to scale is to scale out - build more of it.
In such situation the space management becomes an issue. When playing with the bus design, sometimes I had to maintain around 15 lines of stuff with branching, underpassing and so on.(I'm still undecided between a complete bus and modular designs. I'm playing a hybrid atm)

2. Scaling up
The first big redesign is when a player gets to better machines. Suddenly it is not necessary to multiply modules. The space reclaimed can be reused for spreading the manufacturing of intermediates across many places (iron gears are prime example), instead of transporting them across the whole factory.

3. Logistic robots
When robots get enhanced (by technology speed ups and cargo) a few times, it starts to make sense to split the "top up" manufacturing to a separate part of the factory (by "top up" I mean things you produce up to a point and then top up the reserve only once in a while - ammo, pipes, engines, etc.). Suddenly one doesn't need to branch that much, just a provider chest off the main bus is enough.

4. Logistic robots for all
When robots get upgraded to MK4, they become so efficient that one might redesign the factory to use them for essentially everything but the bare essentials (iron and copper plates). I don't even bother with transporting steel beams anymore.

Those phases make the game challenging and fresh for a long gameplay time.

However, I've noticed a few issues that I think would make the mod even better:
1. Power
After upgrading the boilers and solar power + batteries, the constant struggle to get enough power is essentially gone with only a fraction of space devoted to it. (I'm not gonna even go into frankly silly discussion regarding the efficiency of boilers and making fuel out of hydrolized hydrogen - it's a game not a physics simulator.)
Maybe new upgraded assembly machines should eat much more energy?
Also, the new turrets are so great (snipers and AP ammo FTW!) that I never felt the need to build a wall of laser turrets as I usually end up doing when playing vanilla (tbh I haven't even researched the new laser ones).

2. Alien artifacts
Someone already mentioned here, the standard alien artifacts are too numerous. It's easy to get tons of them (especially with the small to big conversion). At the later stages of the game, one can usually have a chest full of them with nothing really to do with them.
Maybe they should be part of later stage recipies (alongside the colored ones). Maybe there should be a conversion process to get them into the colored ones (50-to-1?).
BTW - I wonder if it would be possible to build a farm of aliens - a henhouse.
Surround an alien base with a wall then put a number of turrets around just so they don't reach the spawners. Put enough turrets so you don't need to worry about their rushes. The aliens will spawn then wander and get killed by turrets. Then once in a while send robots to harvest the artifacts left lying around. Rinse and repeat. If the aliens try to epxand the base, they will get into the range of turrets.

3. Ores imbalance
Some ores are used in many things, some are not. For example, I'm drowning in nickel ore. It wouldn't be such a problem normally - just mine it less, but by default nickel comes together with lead out of Galena deposit. While I use lead in large numbers, nickel get's stacked up. It is part of nitinol, invar and tungsten processing but those alloys are used only in moderate amounts.

4. Too efficient mining drills
The new upgraded mining drills are great but usually 2 of them are enough to saturate the standard belt. 4 of them are enough to get a cargo wagon full of stuff every few minutes. The problem is that they eat into the ore so quickly they empty the lot quite rapidly and then the trains run empty when not supervised. One solution is to put a lot of them on the deposit, but that kinda defeats the purpose of their speed. I tend to use the large area mining drills much more often due to this. Otherwise I have to ride the train to the outpost to reposition the drills frequently.

5. Smart inserters
The express inserters are great. They can scale up the logistics so much one can scale it back in significantly (down to one inserters per action). However, smart inserters stay at their speed. While it is easy to load up a train using the new inserters in a fraction of time, unloading with smart inserters require more time (usually at the base, in a busy train station when the time slots are at premium).
Any chance of introducing express smart inserters?

There are also a few small bugs and omissions (especially around technology prerequisites for titianium and tungsten processing). I'd be happy to take that part offline and would also like to discuss something else - is the email you put into the info.json file a valid way of contacting you? PM seem to be disabled on the forum.

PS. Wow, quite a wall of text...

Kind regards,
Ath

[bobingabout]

Thanks for all the comments! as you put it yourself, quite a wall of text, but I did read it all.

Power issues have come up quite often, especially with the double multiplicative bonus from upgrading both the boiler, and the steam engine. I have been thinking of re-ballancing them. The higher tier factories do consume more power already, they're tuned to be just a little more efficient than the previous version per item.

Alien artifacts, I was thinking of something similar myself, as well as just using them even more. Though I want to limit them to warfare purposes, I want to try and avoid the need to go out and kill aliens, and restrict the requirements for artifacts to things that would help gather them in the first place.

Ores, well, the specific one you mentioned with the lead and nickel, well, use less lead? there's more than one way to make solder, try making it with silver and copper instead of lead, then you won't need to mine as much, and won't get too much nickle. Okay, this is a bit hard in the early stage, since silver is only found outside of the base. But you're right, some are just used way more than others. I have attempted to reballance them in some places, but most of the time it just keeps coming back to realism, some are just used a lot more than others.

Mining drills... a fairly new point you raise there, most people complain that the recipes are too similar. They're incomplete, but I can never seem to find the time to go back and finish them, something always ends up destracting me, like bug fixes, or the new idea of the moment catchs my interest.

Technology prerequisites.... there are 2 main reasons why there are holes in these. The first one being that when I wrote most of the prerequisites originally, there wasn't a fully functional wrap written into the game, so adding too many would cause problems. this is fixed in 0.12 however... the second reason you could call Laziness.... The desire to just get something out there that works is sometimes too high to spend extra time going through and writing all the prerequisites.

Thats it for now I guess.
oh, and yes, it is a valid email.

[orzelek]

@Athmagor - you need 5 posts to be able to send PM's.

[Athmagor]

Power issues have come up quite often, especially with the double multiplicative bonus from upgrading both the boiler, and the steam engine. I have been thinking of re-ballancing them. The higher tier factories do consume more power already, they're tuned to be just a little more efficient than the previous version per item.

That's a valid point. However, unless you have a really big factory, the fact the newer machines are faster, means you can just scale up instead of out - one can remove some machines. With the increased efficiency, power requirements do not scale at the same rate.

Ores, well, the specific one you mentioned with the lead and nickel, well, use less lead? there's more than one way to make solder, try making it with silver and copper instead of lead, then you won't need to mine as much, and won't get too much nickle. Okay, this is a bit hard in the early stage, since silver is only found outside of the base. But you're right, some are just used way more than others. I have attempted to reballance them in some places, but most of the time it just keeps coming back to realism, some are just used a lot more than others.

I know about the other recipe for solder. However, that one puts more pressure on Tin (and I haven't been that lucky with RNG on that one).
The other 2 ones I cannot get rid of fast enough are Sodium Hydroxide and Cobalt Oxide. They are being used but at a fractional rate to the production. One way of disposing them is to put them to a group of wooden crates and destroy with a nicely aimed sniper shot. You can call that taking the trash out. It would be good to use them more (or produce less proportionally).

Technology prerequisites.... there are 2 main reasons why there are holes in these. The first one being that when I wrote most of the prerequisites originally, there wasn't a fully functional wrap written into the game, so adding too many would cause problems. this is fixed in 0.12 however... the second reason you could call Laziness.... The desire to just get something out there that works is sometimes too high to spend extra time going through and writing all the prerequisites.

Understood. I might be able to help you on that, though. Let me put that into an email.

@Athmagor - you need 5 posts to be able to send PM's.

Roger. Expected something like that to be in place.

[orzelek]

One more thing for the lots of items you don't need - I'd recommend getting compression chests mod. You can nicely use it to store all excess resources in one place - it doesn't solve the usage problems but makes it less annoying.
And I did have north of 20k of sodium hydroxide at one point in long game

[bobingabout]

Ores, well, the specific one you mentioned with the lead and nickel, well, use less lead? there's more than one way to make solder, try making it with silver and copper instead of lead, then you won't need to mine as much, and won't get too much nickle. Okay, this is a bit hard in the early stage, since silver is only found outside of the base. But you're right, some are just used way more than others. I have attempted to reballance them in some places, but most of the time it just keeps coming back to realism, some are just used a lot more than others.

I know about the other recipe for solder. However, that one puts more pressure on Tin (and I haven't been that lucky with RNG on that one).
The other 2 ones I cannot get rid of fast enough are Sodium Hydroxide and Cobalt Oxide. They are being used but at a fractional rate to the production. One way of disposing them is to put them to a group of wooden crates and destroy with a nicely aimed sniper shot. You can call that taking the trash out. It would be good to use them more (or produce less proportionally).

Again, you give me a first time experience. I don't think anyone has ever complained about making too much Cobalt Oxide, I usually hear complaints that they can't find how to get cobalt. Since it is only used for a very few things, I think the answer is to make less of it, but then I do understand that it comes along with more efficient copper production.

As for the Sodium Hydroxide, this is one that is harder to control, since it produced by an essential recipe, the only way to get Chlorine. However, I have some good news here, I'm planning on adding a few more things that make use of it.

[Athmagor]

Ores, well, the specific one you mentioned with the lead and nickel, well, use less lead? there's more than one way to make solder, try making it with silver and copper instead of lead, then you won't need to mine as much, and won't get too much nickle. Okay, this is a bit hard in the early stage, since silver is only found outside of the base. But you're right, some are just used way more than others. I have attempted to reballance them in some places, but most of the time it just keeps coming back to realism, some are just used a lot more than others.

I know about the other recipe for solder. However, that one puts more pressure on Tin (and I haven't been that lucky with RNG on that one).
The other 2 ones I cannot get rid of fast enough are Sodium Hydroxide and Cobalt Oxide. They are being used but at a fractional rate to the production. One way of disposing them is to put them to a group of wooden crates and destroy with a nicely aimed sniper shot. You can call that taking the trash out. It would be good to use them more (or produce less proportionally).

Again, you give me a first time experience. I don't think anyone has ever complained about making too much Cobalt Oxide, I usually hear complaints that they can't find how to get cobalt. Since it is only used for a very few things, I think the answer is to make less of it, but then I do understand that it comes along with more efficient copper production.

As for the Sodium Hydroxide, this is one that is harder to control, since it produced by an essential recipe, the only way to get Chlorine. However, I have some good news here, I'm planning on adding a few more things that make use of it.

Don't take it as a complaint. I understand it is part of the challenge. Take it more as an experience report. You _might_ take it into consideration and change it to make the gameplay smoother.

Yes, I fully switched into the improved copper smelting.

Sodium Hydroxide handling

SodiumHydroxide.png (322.52 KiB) Viewed 5065 times

Cobalt Oxide handling

CobaltOxide.png (372.35 KiB) Viewed 5065 times

How about multiplying the ingredients and the results but the sodium-hydroxide in salt-water-electrolysis recipe. This way it is still produced but not that much. The same might go for cobalt oxide. Of course if you find other uses for it, this point becomes moot.

[irbork]

Currently when I disable ores/plates/electronics to get vanilla like experience with all the nice bobs equipment I am unable to get all the tiers of power armor and other stuff that goes inside.
Is it intended or a bug?

[bobingabout]

How about multiplying the ingredients and the results but the sodium-hydroxide in salt-water-electrolysis recipe.

Already did that, you're getting half the amount you're supposed to.

The same might go for cobalt oxide. Of course if you find other uses for it, this point becomes moot.

The original recipe gave little to no bonus to the copper output, the only reason why I made it more efficient was because people complained it was too expensive, and the only reason to use it was to get the cobalt oxide (Which was actually the original point of it)

I was actually thinking of tweaking it to be more random (Like the newly added advanced lead processing recipe that also gives silver ore as a byproduct). Instead of getting 2 cobalt oxide, it would randomly give 1 to 3. as would also give a random number of copper plates between 7 and 10.

[bobingabout]

Currently when I disable ores/plates/electronics to get vanilla like experience with all the nice bobs equipment I am unable to get all the tiers of power armor and other stuff that goes inside.
Is it intended or a bug?

can you be a bit more specific?

turning mods on is easy, and usually has migration scripts to "Fix" things that arn't as the mod tells them they should be.
turning mods off isn't as easy, because there is no migration script to fix the issues... it is probably related to this.
you'll need to run the reset_recipes and reset_technologies commands.