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Your plan for the new barreling system sounds nice.
But actually with 0.15 I don't need barrels anymore. Since they inplemented the tankwagons I use them to transport all the fluids, ...

BlackDeath wrote:Your plan for the new barreling system sounds nice.
But actually with 0.15 I don't need barrels anymore. Since they inplemented the tankwagons I use them to transport all the fluids, ...

It all comes down to storage on this... As before in 0.14 you could store more in barrel form in steel or upgraded chests and then the warehousing mods. Even with Rail Tanker you could not store excess liquid/gas in Rail Tanker and in the storage tank mk3 to beat barreling, although close depending on mods loaded. Have not checked out 0.15 ratios yet or looked up what someone else has come up with as 0.15 is still WIP until it is stable release and Bob is still working on his.

Although I had to remove Rail Tanker due to LTN, the new taker may work better for remote oil stations, so it is less complex on the loading stations... Then just barrel it in the Oil Production area for storage if it is better than storage tanks, although I still use tanks for buffers and balancer of fluid to some degree.

Toying with this...

N2 + 3H2 -> 2(NH3) (Amonia)
H2 + O2 -> H2O2 hydrogen peroxide
2NH3 + H2O2 -> N2H4 + 2H2O Hydrazine (and water)
4NH3 + 5O2 -> 4NO + 6H2O (Nitrogen oxide and water)
2NO + O2 -> 2NO2 (Nitrogen Dioxide)
2NO2 -> N2O4 (dinitrogen tetroxide)

Ammonia would then be used to make Fertilizer in the greenhouse mod, Hydrazine, part of the new rocket fuel idea, and a new more realistic Nitrogen Dioxide recipe.
Dinitrogen Tetroxide would be part 2 of the rocket fuel (The oxidizer)
Hydrogen peroxide and nitrogen oxide would just be extra intermediates here, and nitrogen dioxide you know.

This does however mean that making that nitrogen dioxide, and everything that follows would be more complex, adding an extra link in the chain. Maybe I should have the Nitrogen Dioxide part optional, to keep the simple nitrogen+oxygen recipe in if desired.

bobingabout wrote:Toying with this...

N2 + 3H2 -> 2(NH3) (Amonia)
H2 + O2 -> H2O2 hydrogen peroxide
2NH3 + H2O2 -> N2H4 + 2H2O Hydrazine (and water)
4NH3 + 5O2 -> 4NO + 6H2O (Nitrogen oxide and water)
2NO + O2 -> 2NO2 (Nitrogen Dioxide)
2NO2 -> N2O4 (dinitrogen tetroxide)

Ammonia would then be used to make Fertilizer in the greenhouse mod, Hydrazine, part of the new rocket fuel idea, and a new more realistic Nitrogen Dioxide recipe.
Dinitrogen Tetroxide would be part 2 of the rocket fuel (The oxidizer)
Hydrogen peroxide and nitrogen oxide would just be extra intermediates here, and nitrogen dioxide you know.

This does however mean that making that nitrogen dioxide, and everything that follows would be more complex, adding an extra link in the chain. Maybe I should have the Nitrogen Dioxide part optional, to keep the simple nitrogen+oxygen recipe in if desired.

I use hydrazine, dymethyl hydrazine and nitric acid in the petrochems mod for rocket fuel. If you look into the old N-Tech chemistry mod, it had a chain for hydrazine for rocket fuel.

Arch666Angel wrote:

bobingabout wrote:Toying with this...

N2 + 3H2 -> 2(NH3) (Amonia)
H2 + O2 -> H2O2 hydrogen peroxide
2NH3 + H2O2 -> N2H4 + 2H2O Hydrazine (and water)
4NH3 + 5O2 -> 4NO + 6H2O (Nitrogen oxide and water)
2NO + O2 -> 2NO2 (Nitrogen Dioxide)
2NO2 -> N2O4 (dinitrogen tetroxide)

Ammonia would then be used to make Fertilizer in the greenhouse mod, Hydrazine, part of the new rocket fuel idea, and a new more realistic Nitrogen Dioxide recipe.
Dinitrogen Tetroxide would be part 2 of the rocket fuel (The oxidizer)
Hydrogen peroxide and nitrogen oxide would just be extra intermediates here, and nitrogen dioxide you know.

This does however mean that making that nitrogen dioxide, and everything that follows would be more complex, adding an extra link in the chain. Maybe I should have the Nitrogen Dioxide part optional, to keep the simple nitrogen+oxygen recipe in if desired.

I use hydrazine, dymethyl hydrazine and nitric acid in the petrochems mod for rocket fuel. If you look into the old N-Tech chemistry mod, it had a chain for hydrazine for rocket fuel.

So do you think this is a move in the right direction?

bobingabout wrote:

Arch666Angel wrote:

bobingabout wrote:Toying with this...

N2 + 3H2 -> 2(NH3) (Amonia)
H2 + O2 -> H2O2 hydrogen peroxide
2NH3 + H2O2 -> N2H4 + 2H2O Hydrazine (and water)
4NH3 + 5O2 -> 4NO + 6H2O (Nitrogen oxide and water)
2NO + O2 -> 2NO2 (Nitrogen Dioxide)
2NO2 -> N2O4 (dinitrogen tetroxide)

Ammonia would then be used to make Fertilizer in the greenhouse mod, Hydrazine, part of the new rocket fuel idea, and a new more realistic Nitrogen Dioxide recipe.
Dinitrogen Tetroxide would be part 2 of the rocket fuel (The oxidizer)
Hydrogen peroxide and nitrogen oxide would just be extra intermediates here, and nitrogen dioxide you know.

This does however mean that making that nitrogen dioxide, and everything that follows would be more complex, adding an extra link in the chain. Maybe I should have the Nitrogen Dioxide part optional, to keep the simple nitrogen+oxygen recipe in if desired.

I use hydrazine, dymethyl hydrazine and nitric acid in the petrochems mod for rocket fuel. If you look into the old N-Tech chemistry mod, it had a chain for hydrazine for rocket fuel.

So do you think this is a move in the right direction?

Yeah, depends on how much "complexity" you want e.g. how deep the recipe tree should be, but this is at least more challenging and interesting that putting some fuel blocks together, which you can produce on mass starting from mid game, specially with the new vanilla coal liquification.

Oh boy.... Bob is merging petrochem into his mods

Petrochem lite by bobingabout

btw:

Leviathan health multiplied by 10 to make them more of a boss

Leviathan?? O.O

I just noticed that the logistics network requires high-tech science... which requires lithium batteries and speed modules.

Noo!!!! Please don't do this. The logistics network should be available LONG before this point in the game.

Logistics network is probably the best tech in the game, it should be difficult to get

Recon777 wrote:

image

I just noticed that the logistics network requires high-tech science... which requires lithium batteries.

Noo!!!! Please don't do this. The logistics network should be available LONG before this point in the game.

Blame Factorio devs, they made the logistics network tech cost 150 of each pack, there are 2 mods (that I know of) that changes that tech back to only red+green science btw.

And I agree that we should have that tech way before going into high tech.

Mobius1 wrote:Blame Factorio devs, they made the logistics network tech cost 150 of each pack, there are 2 mods (that I know of) that changes that tech back to only red+green science btw.

And I agree that we should have that tech way before going into high tech.

Bob's should change it back.

But in case he doesn't... which mods do you know of that do this? I tried looking, but came up dry.

Recon777 wrote:Bob's should change it back.

But in case he doesn't... which mods do you know of that do this? I tried looking, but came up dry.

Wormmus' Config Mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/wormmus/wormmus-config
Easier Logistic System Research: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Roxor128 ... 20Research

The Wormmus one adds a shitload of settings along with the recipe change, the other mod only changes the recipe.

Mobius1 wrote:Petrochem lite by bobingabout

btw:

Leviathan health multiplied by 10 to make them more of a boss

Leviathan?? O.O

Leviathan biter and spitter. only turn up very rarely at max evolution.

Recon777 wrote:http://i.imgur.com/8HxFqYh.png

I just noticed that the logistics network requires high-tech science... which requires lithium batteries and speed modules.

Noo!!!! Please don't do this. The logistics network should be available LONG before this point in the game.

I'll try to remember to remove the high tech pack cost.
Also replace productivity with logistic pack... or maybe just remove that too.
Science pack 3 isn't too high in my opinion.

bobingabout wrote:I'll try to remember to remove the high tech pack cost.
Also replace productivity with logistic pack... or maybe just remove that too.
Science pack 3 isn't too high in my opinion.

That would be fine. I don't mind waiting for Blue science for logistics networks. But hell no, it's ridiculous to go super-late-game with it, especially given how complex it is to get the high tech packs when modded.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna try this one out which supposedly reverts it to 0.14
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/ItsTheKa ... search-fix

Going just red/green is way too soon I think.

Well... honestly, the game is about fiddling with belts and inserters and automate a complex factory.
Logistcs systems remove all that and make everything way to simple. And even if the devs didnt changed anything else about science except the pre-requisites of logistics system, it would still be a light complexity to automate only with red/green/blue science without bots so I understand their move. I did the lazy bastard and the logistc network embargo in the same play-throught and I barely missed them!

I also understand the complains. We got used to bots and with Bobs, even more since everything is a little more complex until end game.
It is my impression that we are so used to have bots earlier that we cant conceive the idea of playing without them. Maybe.... what we really need is to play a game having bots so end-game (where they probably should had been all this time) and see how it goes instead of just immediately reverting the change without even trying it to see how it behaves. New players, will not even notice this, why make such a huge change for them?

So, I would not change the high tech science pack on the research. There are mods for it, if players want to change it they can add the mod. For the ones that want the challenge, they keep it as it come. I say this because there are a couple of players that cant stop themselves from abusing every little edge the game gives them but they also like to struggle if the game doesnt give them the edge. at least, I am one of those.
If the technology is not changed, I will try to survive without it but if its changed, I will just do the usual and rush to the bots.

The point is in being forced to refrain from certain design options (which I rather object to). I, too, did the lazybastard and logistics embargo achievements in the same playthrough. But this kind of thing is a "self-restriction", which is fine. Players can refrain from using logistics bots if they so choose. But why choose for them? With Bob's mods, we're talking upwards of 50-80 hours of gameplay by the time there's high-tech science. If players want to use logi bots before then, why restrict it?

Same goes for personal roboports, in my opinion. I think a cheap no-armor modular suit capable of housing say, 3 roboports plus necessary power would be really great for the red/green science era. Why? Because personal con bots are a quality-of-life improvement. It lets people focus on designing rather than the tedium of picking up a complex build by hand and moving it over three squares so it fits better. That kind of thing should be available earlier, especially considering how long it takes to get that up and running in Bob's mods.

Don't get me wrong - I love the complexity Bob's brings to the table. The problem is just that certain important milestones aren't reached until much more TIME has passed due to the added complexity. As such, I think it helps to adjust certain QoL improvements in terms of where they appear on the tech tree. That way, the player can spend more time designing complex builds WITH the QoL improvements.

While it is fine for the vanilla game, Bob's mods add so many resources and intermediates that it becomes generally near to nonsense to transport stuff via belts so I would vote for enabling logistic network at blue science in Bob's mods. Ok maybe with added new logistic science pack but no way with high tech as vanilla suggests.

I think you are all missing my point.

Vanilla devs made a decision, that I understand and agree to some length while at the same time thinking that it might had been too much!
But, they also gave an option to disable it with mods!

If bob changes this on his mods without an option to change it, I disagree. Its forcing a low level of effort on a mod that is bringing complexity at the same time. its like, I will make the game more complex but I have this back door so you can just skip it...
If its changed but with a setting to enable and disable it, its different and for consistency, I would prefer if it was disabled by default. Whoever does not like the vanilla change, can always change this setting and its done.

But, in the end, there is already a mod that does this, why import this feature here? I am kinda against mod feature creeping. Suddenly, we have 2,3,4 or more mods that all have the same features and one might break the other... Its a simple thing, a mod does it, whoever wants it, adds the mod, that simple!

nagapito wrote:I think you are all missing my point.

Vanilla devs made a decision, that I understand and agree to some length while at the same time thinking that it might had been too much!
But, they also gave an option to disable it with mods!

If bob changes this on his mods without an option to change it, I disagree. Its forcing a low level of effort on a mod that is bringing complexity at the same time. its like, I will make the game more complex but I have this back door so you can just skip it...
If its changed but with a setting to enable and disable it, its different and for consistency, I would prefer if it was disabled by default. Whoever does not like the vanilla change, can always change this setting and its done.

But, in the end, there is already a mod that does this, why import this feature here? I am kinda against mod feature creeping. Suddenly, we have 2,3,4 or more mods that all have the same features and one might break the other... Its a simple thing, a mod does it, whoever wants it, adds the mod, that simple!

I agree with this