clampi wrote:Hello Bob,
Your latest change to boblogistics is not quite what I come to expect quality-wise from you. To name a few issues I encountered
I was expecting feedback, complaints and suggestions. Consider the current version more of an experiment than final. I did have the "This isn't going to work" feeling quite often while re-working the inserters, so it is possible I didn't make the best decision in all cases.
clampi wrote:
Fast inserter remains fast but filter inserter is now slower, because is converted to the new "fast filter inserter" or "red filter inserter".
Recipe changes to inserters and belts makes many blueprints and layouts obsolete, recovering by re-engineering the running base is time-consuming due to new intermediates required.
I tried to keep changes to a minimum, but ingredient changes was part of the overhaul plan, especially things like iron gear wheel -> steel/brass gear wheel and iron-plate -> steel/aluminium. it was discussed quite heavily and most people gave positive feedback on the plan. Keep in mind the same changes were made to belts. The overall change is going to stay, however... I'll get to that in a bit.
as for the inconsistency with the filter inserter, I'll get back to that too.
clampi wrote:New intermediates required to build simple items as belts and inserters.
Changes to tech tree leave no real option for high-volume inserter at red+green science level. Stack insertes require blue science, red-green has only only a stack-bonus.
The changes to the tech tree were one of the more painful moments, I wasn't going to increase the speed of any of the lower tiers, but decided to increase the speed of them to make up for locking the previously red science blue inserters behind blue science. it forces you to want to use the red inserters more, which have 75% of the speed of the old blue, rather than 50%, and the new blue have a speed of 125%.
As for stack bonuses, I made no changes to these in the current version of the mod, okay, it does push stack inserter stack bonus behind a blue science line, but the first tiers of research still cost red and green to research. This is purely because of the move to stack inserters research itself, and if it were moved back down to a red/green science level, but only give fast stack instead of express stack inserters, balance will be restored.
clampi wrote:No way to reduce GUI clutter by giving an option to remove the reintroduced button. I use adjustable inserters and have no use for the new button.
If you're already using bob's adjustable inserters mod, then nothing should change at all, the button already exists in that mod, and the changes shouldn't affect that. Now, it does try to add/re-add the button even if it already exists, but the buttons are the same (copy paste those functions from the inserters mod to make sure). if this isn't the case, make sure you're using the latest version of my inserters mod, and if the problem persists, let me know. Now, adding this button wasn't exactly my favoured choice of things to do, If you have any suggestions on how to solve the issue, I'm open to hearing them, but given my alternative was to have a recipe, item and entity for long handed inserters, and removing the long handed inserter was the primary reason for doing this, yeah...
clampi wrote:Coding-wise the new inserters rework is a naming convention mess. I understand some changes were made with mod compatibility in mind, but then what's with the red-inserter? No consistency.
The creation of the red-inserter entity was done because I couldn't come up with a way to convert old long handed inserters without breaking existing games. if you simply were to change the range values, oh, all your long handed inserters lose their ranges. so a new entity was required as an "easy" fix. now, the long way is to apply a script that checks for the existing entity's hand locations, then apply them to it. this is important because it then reads the locations from save, not entity prototype. which needs to be applied before the prototype is changed. I'll get back to why I changed only the entity too.
clampi wrote:Restore the old stack bonus or introduce a new "Fast stack inserter" inserter at red+green level of science.
I didn't really want to, but possible. I did make graphics for a red stack hand.
clampi wrote:Create all the inserters needed for the respecive tiers and keep the naming convention. "Filter Inserter" paired with "Inserter", "Fast Inserter" paired with "Fast stack inserter" and "Fast filter inserter" and so on.
Provide a migration script for running games that will convert inserter items and entities to their new speed equivalents.
for the red-inserter vs long-handed-inserter deal, and and reversing of red/blue-filter-inserter choice... well... the first one was for minimum disruption as mentioned, I redirected long-handed to red to avoid migration, rather than create an entire new set of red-inserter item/recipe set. As for filter, that was done mostly because I needed to maintain the filter-inserter locale entry as it is because of my auto-locale system, try load the game in german, and you'll see that the names of my inserters will be such as... "Express"(english) "Filter inserter"(german) as the second part is reading the locale entry of the original filter inserter entity.
clampi wrote:To keep the internal entity and item naming convention, make at data-final-fixes stage a foreach recipe replace(old ingredient, new ingredient). This is a heavy handed approach, a more cleaner way would be desired.
Either check whether bobinserters is loaded and don't display the GUI button, or provide a keyboard shortcut alternative to show/hide the GUI button.
If you're using the latest version of both, the second GUI button shouldn't exist, should be the same button in both, logistics will ignore the button if inserters is installed. I'm not quite sure why you're sugesting putting a migration in data-final-fixes, but I can, and am thinking I should use migrations to some extent rather than trying to ignore them.
clampi wrote:It pains me greatly to see that you still consider brass a higher tier material, above carbon-steel or cobalt-steel. Brass is great for some applications, but not really used where mechanical stress is involved. You do have carbon-steel, cobalt steel, and nickel available, why not expand upon them and let brass take it's niche place? Brass pickaxe better than carbon-steel pickaxe?
Brass gear wheel is actually a bit of a legacy item from DyTech days. I don't want to remove it because it's already used a lot in my mods. However, I could go with cobalt-steel bearings instead of regular steel bearings, and possibly add in a new cobalt steel gear wheel too. then you'll get to remind me how hard it is to craft cobalt.
Okay, from this review, the shortlist of changes:
Give red inserter a full recipe/item rename to go along with the entity.
Give Filter inserter a similar treatment, having a red filter inserter providing the fast functionality, and restore the old filter to it's express speed. (I'm thinking like long handed, the entity will remain unchanged, but give you a fast filter when you dismantle it).
Give fast inserter the same treatment as filter inserter, to maintain expected speeds, and restore internal name convention.
Stack and stack filter, the same, why not.
Migrate the items and recipes to the new naming scheme.
Express inserters... aren't really breaking a whole lot(as red and blue will be used instead of fast and express), Their names are consistent to each other unlike the red/blue mess, but consider changing them to purple too, to keep over-all consistency.
Give me more feedback on the button.