thoughts about [0.5.0]

[gr0mpel]

i was able to play the new version for a few hours.
what i've noticed so far:

the player is not able to leave an express transport belt when moving in 2 dimensions (e.g. x/-y ; -y/x) and stutters shortly when leaving a fast transport belt when moving in 2 dimensions.
moving in one dimension doenst cause problems

the "research progression meter" covers the "FPS" and "UPS" meter (resolution 1920x1080). unfortunate position

"God controller (mode without a player)" how to enable that? Edit: ok i found it. but its quite hidden in the "custom scenario"


the new gui looks cool! apart from the already mentioned "grey in grey crafting progression"
additionaly i found it quite hard to detect the resource outputs at the electric mining drill

[wrtlprnft]

"God controller (mode without a player)" how to enable that?

Play→Custom Scenario→base/sandbox. Also has some neat optional features such as researching all technologies, and a chest full of starter goodies. I'd like an option to disable the day/night cycle (night without a flashlight is pretty dark) and some way to move cars and trains.

[MF-]

@ mining drills: Yeah, I was also quite unsure where will the output ore land.
So far I attribute it to the fact, that it used to be crystal-clear (just as everything else used to be) and now it's not (just as everything else is now).
If I weren't given the crystal-clear version first, I think I would quickly figure it out.

@wrtlprnft - moving trains
You can still build stations and order trains to go to them, can't you?

[slpwnd]

@ mining drills: Yeah, I was also quite unsure where will the output ore land.
So far I attribute it to the fact, that it used to be crystal-clear (just as everything else used to be) and now it's not (just as everything else is now).
If I weren't given the crystal-clear version first, I think I would quickly figure it out.

The problem with replacing simply (often top view) graphics with something looking pretties is that often some visibility is lost. That is the case for the mining drill as well. We try to still keep it clear. That is why the output is in red compared to the rest. And also that is why there is the "box" around the drill. But yes - to have both aesthetics and clear visibility is not easy.

I'd like an option to disable the day/night cycle (night without a flashlight is pretty dark)

Good point.

and some way to move cars and trains.

I was curious whether someone will come up with this one=) Yes it will be added eventually.

"God controller (mode without a player)" how to enable that? Edit: ok i found it. but its quite hidden in the "custom scenario"

We were considering moving the custom scenarios under the "new game" section. That way however the freeplay would lose its dominant position as "the new game". Opinions?

[wrtlprnft]

You can still build stations and order trains to go to them, can't you?

Yeah, of course. But resolving stuck trains is easier if you can manually drive them. I also haven't found a way to attach cargo wagons to locomotives.

Is it intended that the game asks you again whether you want the starting chest/technology if you load a sandbox map?

[MF-]

We were considering moving the custom scenarios under the "new game" section. That way however the freeplay would lose its dominant position as "the new game". Opinions?

I think it would be OK if new game -> "freeplay" game offered both survival and creative modes (or "Freeplay" v.s. "Sandbox")

[MF-]

I also haven't found a way to attach cargo wagons to locomotives.

Ah, true, you probably won't be able to do that.
It would be nice if you could, though - just as in model railroads (they have special rails that can un-hook train cars, cars attach by slamming them into each other).
If I was able to configure my railroad to attach and detach wagons.. hmmm I have no idea how that would work while making it actually useful.

[slpwnd]

I also haven't found a way to attach cargo wagons to locomotives.

The wagon / locomotive must be selected and then you can just use the same key combinations as usual. This now also works for the regular player (he needs to be close enough).

[gr0mpel]

@ mining drills: Yeah, I was also quite unsure where will the output ore land.
So far I attribute it to the fact, that it used to be crystal-clear (just as everything else used to be) and now it's not (just as everything else is now).
If I weren't given the crystal-clear version first, I think I would quickly figure it out.

fair point, but: when placing a drill it is green.
so its hard to place it the right direction without having it rotated afterwards

[slpwnd]

fair point, but: when placing a drill it is green.
so its hard to place it the right direction without having it rotated afterwards

True but I use a simple mnemonic for that. the output is on the side where the propellers are.

[SilverWarior]

Why not simply adding and arow indicating the the output when placing mines, similar as it is done with inserters

And since you are talking about menu changes I would realy like to see Test(Play) button in editor which would alow you to quickly test your map. Also it would be nice that when you are exiting play which has been started from within editor you are returned to it.

[SilverWarior]

Play→Custom Scenario→base/sandbox. Also has some neat optional features such as researching all technologies, and a chest full of starter goodies. I'd like an option to disable the day/night cycle (night without a flashlight is pretty dark) and some way to move cars and trains.

I would rather have low level light being positioned at the cursor position as in many strategy games.

[MF-]

Why not simply adding and arow indicating the the output when placing mines, similar as it is done with inserters

True, that would nicely solve it. +1 for this idea.
An arrow from the center to the orange edge.

[Hi-Torque]

I like SilverWarior's idea. You could also add a small yellow arrow directly to the graphics of the mine discharge chute similar to what is used for the splitters and belts.

[slpwnd]

I like the idea with an arrow when you are building it / in the alt mode. That should solve this nicely.

[gr0mpel]

that would definitely help

[Dr.Eddy]

My thought on 0.5.1 is that it's bugged as hell.

I can't imagine the devs testing it before releasing. Seriously guys, what's wrong with you? I don't care whether it has new UI or some God controller scenario. For me the game is unplayable since 0.3 series. I skipped 0.4 series as I noticed the slowness bug hasn't been resolved and it was generally buggy. And now this? WTF? I can't even generate a new map! Have you seen what the map generator actually generates? No mention that it mostly ignores the map settings...

I don't care how many new features it has. I care about stability and playability. And don't come at me with "it's an alpha" or "your bug is not serious enough". If it crashes like it does, there's something seriously wrong with the code, the dev cycle or the developers. I know it's an alpha and it may crash, but hell, the bug has been reported since 0.3 series!

And lastly, which is the thing I care about the least, I payed money for this game. I would expect some responsibility. At least some some reply from the devs, like reason why aren't they fixing it.

[MF-]

My thought on 0.5.1 is that it's bugged as hell.

I can't imagine the devs testing it before releasing. Seriously guys, what's wrong with you? I don't care whether it has new UI or some God controller scenario. For me the game is unplayable since 0.3 series. I skipped 0.4 series as I noticed the slowness bug hasn't been resolved and it was generally buggy. And now this? WTF? I can't even generate a new map! Have you seen what the map generator actually generates? No mention that it mostly ignores the map settings...

I don't care how many new features it has. I care about stability and playability. And don't come at me with "it's an alpha" or "your bug is not serious enough". If it crashes like it does, there's something seriously wrong with the code, the dev cycle or the developers. I know it's an alpha and it may crash, but hell, the bug has been reported since 0.3 series!

And lastly, which is the thing I care about the least, I payed money for this game. I would expect some responsibility. At least some some reply from the devs, like reason why aren't they fixing it.

0.5.1 is _NOT_ alpha.
It's EXPERIMENTAL, not even guaranteeing you that your computer will survive running it!

Your crashbug is not resolved, that's a pity. But I don't even have any idea what is the bug you are talking about. You didn't even bother to include a link/description.
Neither my sigbus was fixed till 0.5, where it was accidentally resolved as a side effect of the UI rewrite.

PS: I didn't pay money for this game. I donated to the devs so they can work on it full-time and received complimentary access to the Alpha previews and a promise of the finished release

[wrtlprnft]

I disagree with Dr. Eddie. I think the devs are doing a great job. We paid money so they get to spend more time on the game. They're still trying to figure out how they would like some of the aspects to be (map generation, trains, fighting, long-term goals, …), so I understand that they throw their changes out into an experimental release to see how it works in practice. No sense polishing a feature if it might turn out to be a bad idea altogether.

My bug reports about crashes have been fixed quite quickly, and I know how difficult it is to diagnose a bug you can't reproduce on your own machine. For a game in such rapid development there's surprisingly few crashes and gamebreaking bugs. The 0.4 series was quite playable, and the map generator will hopefully be improved.

[Dr.Eddy]

0.5.1 is _NOT_ alpha.
It's EXPERIMENTAL, not even guaranteeing you that your computer will survive running it!

Whatever you describe it as, that's not the point.

Your crashbug is not resolved, that's a pity. But I don't even have any idea what is the bug you are talking about. You didn't even bother to include a link/description.
Neither my sigbus was fixed till 0.5, where it was accidentally resolved as a side effect of the UI rewrite.

It's not that hard to go to the bugreports section and see for yourself that I bumped my bugreports, is it? I didn't mention them (linked them) because that's not the point.

And I am sorry about your SIGBUS bug. I have no idea how I'd even try fixing that. I have never seen that happen. But my bugs are perfectly reproducable.

PS: I didn't pay money for this game. I donated to the devs so they can work on it full-time and received complimentary access to the Alpha previews and a promise of the finished release

And I invested my money into a project that seemed worthy, that seemed to have some potential. Wouldn't you be sad if it was for nothing, or if it was unusable for you?

I disagree with Dr. Eddie. I think the devs are doing a great job. We paid money so they get to spend more time on the game. They're still trying to figure out how they would like some of the aspects to be (map generation, trains, fighting, long-term goals, …), so I understand that they throw their changes out into an experimental release to see how it works in practice. No sense polishing a feature if it might turn out to be a bad idea altogether.

My bug reports about crashes have been fixed quite quickly, and I know how difficult it is to diagnose a bug you can't reproduce on your own machine. For a game in such rapid development there's surprisingly few crashes and gamebreaking bugs. The 0.4 series was quite playable, and the map generator will hopefully be improved.

I know the devs are just people and they're doing their best not to break things. I know it can get very hard to see into future and come up with good designs that will stand. All I'm saying is the past experience with the ongoing development sucked for me and expressed general unsatisfaction and annoyance.


If anyone still has doubts:
1) I would prefer some better bugreporting system. Thread in the forums can get forgotten about, as one of the devs already confessed.
2) I would also prefer, if the devs make adjustments and changes to functionality, that they at least test it for themselves first. Or would you, MF-, enjoy a build that didn't compile at all? The map generator is seriously broken by my standards.