Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by foamy » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:33 pm

Inglonias wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:08 pm

I find defenders to be quite handy because it's like having a dozen extra guns follow me around wherever I go (at least for the lifetime of the robot). That being said, I do wish they weren't tied to the player. It looks like Rampant Arsenal lets you deploy Capsule turrets which can launch the robots, but I've never tried it. If I could wave a wand and change how they work, you'd put combat robots in some flavor of roboport and they'd deploy out to a fixed range from that port when needed, kill whatever needs to die, and return when done.
Automatic deployment of combat robots from the personal roboport would be pretty sweet, but how would it know which ones to send out?

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Honktown » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:44 am

Red chips are still super slow and I hate making them, even with mods that give me nearly free blue chips :( . I've found I like to do three close wire cable machines, directly inserting into two green chip machines. Since the middle machine feeds both green chip machines, the ratio's balanced without modules and it's really compact. I liked to do wires that fed onto a belt that immediately got picked up by green chip machines, so I didn't have to worry about travel distance (though the ratio's off unless you add cables down the line or space the chips). I didn't learn about beacons though until like, 300-400 hours into the game (over two games), and since then I usually can't run production machines without beacons. You need a lot of power, space, logistics, etc and make a lot of pollution either way (1 beaconed assembler vs 16 assemblers), so it's not really like a non-beaconed setup is any better (and is actually worse per craft in every respect).
Koub wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:26 am
Inglonias wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:37 pm
[...] I also seriously handicapped myself by not using a lot of what the game has to offer. Nuclear power and combat robots being the two big ones.
:lol: You don't miss much with vanilla combat robotics :roll: They are so underwhelming compared to alternatives.
More on this here : viewtopic.php?f=16&t=68384
I see they were updated to piercing rounds at some point. I read the thread a bit and they were saying 5 damage. I noticed in my game they were 8 when I was considering their utility, because I've never made them. Maybe they should add higher-tier versions, where you use a better chip + some ammo + maybe metal and make higher strength versions to match ammo/resources. Unfortunately uranium ammo is way too far down the tech tree to be useful, especially since personal laser defenses got super buffed. It's weird the discharge defense didn't get a damage buff, though it does do quite a bit of damage for a lot of power.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by foamy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:57 pm

I think I've decided to stop bothering adding smarts to my oil cracking and just build dedicated refineries for each product.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Frightning » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:36 pm

I don't build the typical style of early smeltery (ore and coal on same belt), instead I have a dedicated coal line, ore line, and plate output line. This requires long-handed inserters, but means I can run a full double-sided belt of ore through my smeltery (or at least almost full, because I don't bother with trying to get a compressed belt of output). I use the same coal line to feed both iron and copper smeltery (iron on one side, copper on the other). I create a 2nd similar setup nearby for Steel plate and Stone brick smelting.

I also use slowest inserters that are fast enough for task at hand.

I am content with spaghetti, but also make a nicely organized mall early (sometimes I future proof that mall to mid game, sometimes it's just for the early game).

I prefer biters on because of the pressure they exert (plenty of people don't like the nuisance, I for one, do like having to deal with those alien bastards, especially because of how they make pollution, and military items and tech, matter).

I only build enough production of something to meet my immediate needs, and only expand it as is needed (most people build things to a fair scale immediately, I prefer to build a minimally sufficient setup and expand as needed (it's not player time efficient to do so, but idc, it's what I want to do).

I chronically underuse blueprints. Like I almost never bother with them, even when I should (to used to building things the old-fashioned way).

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Honktown » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:17 am

Frightning wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:36 pm
I don't build the typical style of early smeltery (ore and coal on same belt), instead I have a dedicated coal line, ore line, and plate output line. This requires long-handed inserters, but means I can run a full double-sided belt of ore through my smeltery (or at least almost full, because I don't bother with trying to get a compressed belt of output). I use the same coal line to feed both iron and copper smeltery (iron on one side, copper on the other). I create a 2nd similar setup nearby for Steel plate and Stone brick smelting.

I also use slowest inserters that are fast enough for task at hand.

I am content with spaghetti, but also make a nicely organized mall early (sometimes I future proof that mall to mid game, sometimes it's just for the early game).

I prefer biters on because of the pressure they exert (plenty of people don't like the nuisance, I for one, do like having to deal with those alien bastards, especially because of how they make pollution, and military items and tech, matter).

I only build enough production of something to meet my immediate needs, and only expand it as is needed (most people build things to a fair scale immediately, I prefer to build a minimally sufficient setup and expand as needed (it's not player time efficient to do so, but idc, it's what I want to do).

I chronically underuse blueprints. Like I almost never bother with them, even when I should (to used to building things the old-fashioned way).
I "discovered" an interesting way to do smelters: whether you have the ore line in the middle and plates on the outside or the other way around, you use a "double-sided" line of smelters and use a splitter to filter iron and copper different ways. Came across it when I was playing a mod with really limited space, and would drop off chestfuls of iron or copper ore at a time.

Is this the kind of config you're talking about for your furnaces? (attached) I thought I was clever when I figured it out.

Biters are good, yes. Otherwise it's all the numbers game. I play with mods that make the biters more dangerous/rewarding.

I like to immediately overproduce anything if I can. Certain things just will never overproduce (RED CHIPS) but I've had five furnaces making steel being fed by their own iron line when the only thing I could use it for was piercing rounds. Overproduction now means not having to expand it so soon later. I'm willing to throw the resources away killing biters (pollution) because having to extend a line every five minutes annoys me more than throwing down some miners and furnaces.

Blueprinting is ehhhh difficult and not useful early on. I noticed in 17.69 that although it does set assembler recipes and modules, it doesn't set inserter positions when you manually place things. Used to use them all the time before beacons (I had lines of prod 3 assemblers going on and on). I'll still use them for beacon layouts, but beacon layouts are more productive per extension cycle, so to speak, so they don't need to be done as often.

Never done a mall. I'm not gonna be one of those people
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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Frightning » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:08 pm

No, your smeltery setup is not quite like mine. (also, Inserter position for the one next to Long handed inserter appears backwards?) I have the fuel in the center, and ore on it's own belt on the side, right next to the ore belt is the outgoing belt for plates. To deal with the fact that inserters place on outside edge of the belt, I eventually build a little bit of belt-foo to swap what side of the belt plates from the newest furnaces go on, so that eventually I am using both sides of the outgoing belt. My main smeltery line has Iron ore on 1 side, copper on the other side (2 rows of furnaces symmetrically placed around the fuel belt), I have a 1-space gap between furnaces in each row so that I eventually upgrade to Electric furnaces in the far off future (this also lets me place the power poles next to the inserters which simplifies the belt situation for outputting plates considerably).

Picture:
Image

Edit: What do you have against having a mall? Their super convenient and useful.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Honktown » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:13 am

Frightning wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:08 pm
...
I quickly threw that down as an example. I've never intentionally made a "for the future" plan with furnaces. I always have to re-route and use more space anyway because of bigger numbers. The most you can get out of a steel->electric line is 1x what you used to... unless you used speed modules.

What I have against malls:
PLANNING IS SIN
RATIOS ARE BAD
IGNORANCE IS FUN
referencing '1984' of course

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by mrvn » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:06 pm

Frightning wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:08 pm
No, your smeltery setup is not quite like mine. (also, Inserter position for the one next to Long handed inserter appears backwards?) I have the fuel in the center, and ore on it's own belt on the side, right next to the ore belt is the outgoing belt for plates. To deal with the fact that inserters place on outside edge of the belt, I eventually build a little bit of belt-foo to swap what side of the belt plates from the newest furnaces go on, so that eventually I am using both sides of the outgoing belt. My main smeltery line has Iron ore on 1 side, copper on the other side (2 rows of furnaces symmetrically placed around the fuel belt), I have a 1-space gap between furnaces in each row so that I eventually upgrade to Electric furnaces in the far off future (this also lets me place the power poles next to the inserters which simplifies the belt situation for outputting plates considerably).

Picture:
Image

Edit: What do you have against having a mall? Their super convenient and useful.
You can place rows of furnaces with alternating fuel and ore/plate belts if you reverse the inserter/long inserter on alternate rows. That way the belts get filled from both side naturally.

You can also attach have a set smelting iron ore. Then continue the iron plate belt into a second set of furnaces replacing the iron ore belt with a fresh output belt to make steel (place blueprint of smelter with one row offset). It simply becomes twice as long.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Ranger_Aurelien » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:48 pm

Honktown wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:17 am
ore line in the middle and plates on the outside or the other way around, you use a "double-sided" line of smelters and use a splitter to filter iron and copper different ways.

Blueprinting is ehhhh difficult and not useful early on.

Never done a mall. I'm not gonna be one of those people
That sounds like an efficient smelter use in a space-limited area and for where you have overlapping ore patches. Mid+ game I usually will have my smelter pointing away from main use area with the plate belt heading in the opposite direction so as technology improves I can extend as needed.

I use a lot more copy+paste with robots than blueprinting myself, with the exception of railroads and my favourite nuclear plant.

I felt the same way as you about malls, but have grown some respect for them after slogging the LazyB achievement. Have you attempted it?
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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Premu » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:49 pm

My personal nitpicking is to make sure to not leave any small ore patches around. Even if it is a hassle to mine that small patch empty - I'll do it, I can't stand to believe that I left precious resources in the ground!

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Honktown » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:52 am

Ranger_Aurelien wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:48 pm
Honktown wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:17 am
ore line in the middle and plates on the outside or the other way around, you use a "double-sided" line of smelters and use a splitter to filter iron and copper different ways.

Blueprinting is ehhhh difficult and not useful early on.

Never done a mall. I'm not gonna be one of those people
That sounds like an efficient smelter use in a space-limited area and for where you have overlapping ore patches. Mid+ game I usually will have my smelter pointing away from main use area with the plate belt heading in the opposite direction so as technology improves I can extend as needed.

I use a lot more copy+paste with robots than blueprinting myself, with the exception of railroads and my favourite nuclear plant.

I felt the same way as you about malls, but have grown some respect for them after slogging the LazyB achievement. Have you attempted it?
Yeah I did lazy bastard. It was pretty crude but since the goal is one rocket it's not like it needs to be organized.

I do use copy paste a lot with bots.
Premu wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:49 pm
My personal nitpicking is to make sure to not leave any small ore patches around. Even if it is a hassle to mine that small patch empty - I'll do it, I can't stand to believe that I left precious resources in the ground!
You know, I don't think I've seen those tiny dots of ores since 17 but I haven't been needing as much space

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by jodokus31 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:59 am

Honktown wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:52 am
Yeah I did lazy bastard. It was pretty crude but since the goal is one rocket it's not like it needs to be organized.
First impression could be caused by second assumption :D
How did you force yourself to do it :D

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Honktown » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:36 pm

jodokus31 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:59 am
Honktown wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:52 am
Yeah I did lazy bastard. It was pretty crude but since the goal is one rocket it's not like it needs to be organized.
First impression could be caused by second assumption :D
How did you force yourself to do it :D
The challenge was not crude, my base was. I didn't force myself, I wanted to do it. Pretty easy, just a bit annoying when you want to make only a few of things.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Ackos » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:05 am

Hand crafting is always off.
the more spaghetti the better. Dont care about perfect ratios, belt compression, etc.
Biters, always. More/harder.
no solar. see biters.
Vanilla is boring, must use mods.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by jodokus31 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm

Honktown wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:36 pm
jodokus31 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:59 am
Honktown wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:52 am
Yeah I did lazy bastard. It was pretty crude but since the goal is one rocket it's not like it needs to be organized.
First impression could be caused by second assumption :D
How did you force yourself to do it :D
The challenge was not crude, my base was. I didn't force myself, I wanted to do it. Pretty easy, just a bit annoying when you want to make only a few of things.
Ah, ok. I just imagined Lazy Bastard without a bit of organization or at least a mini "mall" for intermediates and often needed items like belts, inserters, etc. and it sounded very painful :) Probably it's ok-ish, if you craft the needed stuff on-the-fly with a bunch of randomly placed assemblers, if you have the intermediates

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by mrvn » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:12 pm

jodokus31 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm
Honktown wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:36 pm
jodokus31 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:59 am
Honktown wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:52 am
Yeah I did lazy bastard. It was pretty crude but since the goal is one rocket it's not like it needs to be organized.
First impression could be caused by second assumption :D
How did you force yourself to do it :D
The challenge was not crude, my base was. I didn't force myself, I wanted to do it. Pretty easy, just a bit annoying when you want to make only a few of things.
Ah, ok. I just imagined Lazy Bastard without a bit of organization or at least a mini "mall" for intermediates and often needed items like belts, inserters, etc. and it sounded very painful :) Probably it's ok-ish, if you craft the needed stuff on-the-fly with a bunch of randomly placed assemblers, if you have the intermediates
You can pretty much just start by placing down one assembler for each item and fill them by hand. Drop a stack of iron plates in an assembler to make a stack of iron gear wheels. If you move stuff in stacks worth it isn't too bad. And when you have inserters and chests you can move stuff in chests worth. Then it really picks up. Just remember to always fill them when you take items out so next time you need some transport belts it will have made more.

Even with running back and forth to transfer stacks of items it's faster than crafting by hand since all the assembler add up while your handcrafting is only speed 1.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by pichutarius » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:12 pm

1. stack inserters and substations everywhere. dont like too many different entity in my inventory.
2. no buffer/active provider chest. dont like too many diff entity in my inventory.
3. when placing substations and roboports, i press f5 to make sure their coordinates are always (even,even). makes rail planing easier.
4. when placing big pole, i press f5 to make sure their coordinates are always multiple of 30 , ie (30n,30n). makes rail planing tidier.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by Honktown » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:40 pm

mrvn wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:12 pm
jodokus31 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm
...
I didn't have random assemblers. My base was a bit spaghetti but it wasn't planned out and all clean and whatnot. I had one or two central assemblers I used for limited-number crafts, the rest was all automated.
pichutarius wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:12 pm
1. stack inserters and substations everywhere. dont like too many different entity in my inventory.
2. no buffer/active provider chest. dont like too many diff entity in my inventory.
3. when placing substations and roboports, i press f5 to make sure their coordinates are always (even,even). makes rail planing easier.
4. when placing big pole, i press f5 to make sure their coordinates are always multiple of 30 , ie (30n,30n). makes rail planing tidier.
Have you ever blueprinted NxN layouts of roboports/big power poles? I also like using only stack inserters if I can, but we're probably talking far past the first rocket

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by pichutarius » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:45 pm

Honktown wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:40 pm
Have you ever blueprinted NxN layouts of roboports/big power poles? I also like using only stack inserters if I can, but we're probably talking far past the first rocket
unless blueprint includes a rail, i still need to press f5 to check the coordinates (2n,2n). one substation is enough for anchor point.

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Re: Niggles and nitpicking - player preferences

Post by mrvn » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:38 pm

pichutarius wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:45 pm
Honktown wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:40 pm
Have you ever blueprinted NxN layouts of roboports/big power poles? I also like using only stack inserters if I can, but we're probably talking far past the first rocket
unless blueprint includes a rail, i still need to press f5 to check the coordinates (2n,2n). one substation is enough for anchor point.
1) I usually blueprint power poles by overlapping at least one pole with an existing one. That way the red/green wire connection works too.
2) Your blueprints don't contain a dummy rail? :)

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