Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

[Yes-Man]

Honestly, both NV and BI should be the same size; either 1x1 or 1x2 (as batteries are). I'd like to run both in my late game power armour since it makes messing with belt layouts far less frustrating, but the sad one-tile gap, which can currently only be filled by a panel, really grinds at me.

Eeeeexactly! And the panel, in comparison to your fusion reactor, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Pure insanity!

[SirSmuggler]

the sad one-tile gap, which can currently only be filled by a panel, really grinds at me.

You can also fill it with not filling it with anything. Having an empty spot above it is exactly the same as it being 1x2 in size.

It's even better, having it 1x1 means its flexible, you can leave an empty slot above OR next to it. If it was made 1x2 or 2x1 it would lose that flexibility.

I realy don't understand how it would be better to have it bigger. Unless ofcource anyone think it's overpowererd and needs to take more space to be "balanced", but that doesn't seem to be the case so...

[jodokus31]

I'd love to see a "wheels!" module - 2x2 or exoskele sized - that:

1. Gives belt immunity
2. Increases the player's top speed, but gives them momentum (like a car)
3. Allows the player to run on train tracks for even higher top speed (I'm a train, yo)

to 3) Nice idea. I would also say, that you can't get run over by a train, when on tracks, because otherwise it's a certain death

Regarding sizes of the equipment modules. The OCD problem is, that we only have only one 1x1 equipment module, except solar, which doesn't stack. and the mk2 armour is 10x10. Several options come to my mind:
- Add more 1x1 equipment modules, which i believe will be the case in future.
- Make nightvision, belt immunity, ... sized like batteries (1x2). more batteries is always good and you have to think twice, before removing them. Or replace 2 with a 2x2 module.
- Make armours 5x5, 7x7 and 11x11, although i think it would annoy more people, than the current problem At least it would reserve that one spot for belt immunity.
(- non serious idea: Make every module a different, rotatable tetris shape )

[5thHorseman]

While we're on it, I'd love an option to disable belt immunity but only for the direction you're moving. So they don't slow you down or shift you, but will speed you up.

[BlueTemplar]

Eeeeexactly! And the panel, in comparison to your fusion reactor, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Pure insanity!

What if you run out of banana peels ?

Yay!

A small detail though : there will be a lot of cringing among the more obsessive-compulsive of us if the Belt Immunity Equipment is only 1x1 !
(the only thing that we are going to be able to put in the remaining spot in the 10x10 Power Armor Mk2 will be a pretty useless Solar Panel!)

I suggest making it 2x1 !
And I already have a sprite in mind for this Belt Immunity Equipment :

New Belt Immunity Equipment Sprite

[eradicator]

Eeeeexactly! And the panel, in comparison to your fusion reactor, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Pure insanity!

What if you run out of banana peels ?

Yay!

A small detail though : there will be a lot of cringing among the more obsessive-compulsive of us if the Belt Immunity Equipment is only 1x1 !
(the only thing that we are going to be able to put in the remaining spot in the 10x10 Power Armor Mk2 will be a pretty useless Solar Panel!)

I suggest making it 2x1 !
And I already have a sprite in mind for this Belt Immunity Equipment :

New Belt Immunity Equipment Sprite

How about coming from the opposite perspective: Just make the grid smaller. I recommend removing the center tile, so that odd grids form a perfect donut. For even grids just cut out the lower right corner or something.

[foamy]

While we're on it, I'd love an option to disable belt immunity but only for the direction you're moving. So they don't slow you down or shift you, but will speed you up.

Honestly, I think that's the way it should work by default.

[Hannu]

If there is some device for belt immunity is there also a command for permanent disabling the belt effect which can be used from beginning?

In my opinion now when we have seen that our skillful devs can really program this "nice" piece of bling bling the annoying effect of belts could be removed. Or at least there should be permanent opt out. It does not have any effect on balance against enemies or time critical tasks. It is just annoying harm. Possibility to speed up walking is very weak advantage against annoyance. And there is a command for speed already for impatient.

[BlueTemplar]

Yes :

Code: Select all

/c	local player = game.player
player.insert{name="modular-armor", count = 1}
local p_armor = player.get_inventory(5)[1].grid
	p_armor.put({name = "battery-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "belt-immunity-equipment"})

[Hannu]

Yes :

Code: Select all

/c	local player = game.player
player.insert{name="modular-armor", count = 1}
local p_armor = player.get_inventory(5)[1].grid
	p_armor.put({name = "battery-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "belt-immunity-equipment"})

OK. Thank you. I tried to find a simple setting to change but it seems that I must have an armor with that device.

[Cribbit]

You can mod it, but in vanilla that's your best bet.

[netmand]

My criticism about the Belt Immunity module applies the same to the Night Vision module. You can make more than one but plugging more than one into modular armor does nothing.

The game should need 1 for yellow belts, 2 for red, 3 for blue.

[ssilk]

Belt immunity is no fun, it’s just needed, especially for those, who have belt spaghetti, but it lacks long time fun. You forget about it, which is not good.

Also it’s not logical that I can stand on belts without any movement. Sure: easier to program.

I like the idea that it is part of exoskeleton. So that it needs constant movement, but still is able to take the belt speed with for walking.

It makes fun to find such optimizations.

More use: it would be such crazy to use the train tracks, like a Lokomotive you can jump with exoskeleton on the tracks, but you are a slower than trains and you have no signals... high danger, but much fun.

Belt immunity for cars/tank? Needed?

[Hannu]

I like the idea that it is part of exoskeleton. So that it needs constant movement, but still is able to take the belt speed with for walking.

I do not agree this. When you have exoskeleton you have personal construction bots and do not anymore need to stay middle of spaghetti when you build it. It is most annoying in midgame when you begin to have more complex bus but not yet personal bots.

You can think it is realism, but it is similar realism than avoiding stones and pits on ground when you walk. It does not give any interesting challenge if modeled in the game but just tedious micromanagament of place.

I suggest that player is immune to belts by default from beginning but maybe you could have some device in armor which gives speed benefit if player ran on belt. Or setting if majority of players want to utilize speed bonus.

Belt immunity for cars/tank? Needed?

In my opinion it is not realistic or consistent that 1 m wide conveyor belt moves such massive and wider objects and I do not see any interesting purpose for moving cars by belts. But I have seen that some players feed laboratories with cars on belt. Probably someone wants to keep it. Or maybe there could be some kind of moving chest. I do not care this kind of special cases but player moving with belts is very annoying especially with short vanilla building distance.

[ssilk]

I like the idea that it is part of exoskeleton. So that it needs constant movement, but still is able to take the belt speed with for walking.

I do not agree this. When you have exoskeleton you have personal construction bots and do not anymore need to stay middle of spaghetti when you build it. It is most annoying in midgame when you begin to have more complex bus but not yet personal bots.

Not quite correct. When you have 16 belts wide bus it is complicated even with bots.

You can think it is realism, but it is similar realism than avoiding stones and pits on ground when you walk. It does not give any interesting challenge if modeled in the game but just tedious micromanagament of place.

Nothing changes, but the excosceleton moves automatically, when you stand on belts. So this is - in my opinion - just a graphical effect, which reminds you now and then to that feature. I don't know, if that looks really nice. It doesn't need (much) energy.

I suggest that player is immune to belts by default from beginning but maybe you could have some device in armor which gives speed benefit if player ran on belt. Or setting if majority of players want to utilize speed bonus.

Hm. Sorry, but I would give that less to no chance. My opinion.

Belt immunity for cars/tank? Needed?

In my opinion it is not realistic or consistent that 1 m wide conveyor belt moves such massive and wider objects and I do not see any interesting purpose for moving cars by belts. But I have seen that some players feed laboratories with cars on belt. Probably someone wants to keep it. Or maybe there could be some kind of moving chest. I do not care this kind of special cases but player moving with belts is very annoying especially with short vanilla building distance.

Moving chests, boxing etc. is an always repeated request.

[BlueTemplar]

Building distance has been significantly increased with 0.17. (6 to 10 m ?)

[Hannu]

Not quite correct. When you have 16 belts wide bus it is complicated even with bots.

Sure. I have always mods and commands to make things easier in that phase of the game. Vanilla Factorio is far too grindy experience at such level.

Nothing changes, but the excosceleton moves automatically, when you stand on belts. So this is - in my opinion - just a graphical effect, which reminds you now and then to that feature. I don't know, if that looks really nice. It doesn't need (much) energy.

You can also think that there is some gap between belts and player set his foots in those positions automatically like in real world.

Hm. Sorry, but I would give that less to no chance. My opinion.

I do not also believe it. That's why I asked command to get behavior I like.

[GlassDeviant]

+1 for it being a default, inherent ability of exoskeletons, but also allow for having a separate, buildable one for when you aren't using exos.

This being a game essentially made for OCD types, me being one, I totally grok the "it leaves an empty space!" issue. I experience it too, then I take my meds. Just sayin'.

[jamiechi1]

I do this to set up my armor the way I want it.
Place the following in a data-final-fixes.lua file in one of your mods.

Code: Select all

-- make equipment smaller
data.raw["generator-equipment"]["fusion-reactor-equipment"].shape.width = 2
data.raw["generator-equipment"]["fusion-reactor-equipment"].shape.height = 2

data.raw["movement-bonus-equipment"]["exoskeleton-equipment"].shape.width = 2
data.raw["movement-bonus-equipment"]["exoskeleton-equipment"].shape.height = 2

data.raw["battery-equipment"]["battery-equipment"].shape.height = 1

data.raw["battery-equipment"]["battery-mk2-equipment"].shape.height = 1

data.raw["night-vision-equipment"]["night-vision-equipment"].shape.width = 1
data.raw["night-vision-equipment"]["night-vision-equipment"].shape.height = 1

Also, there is a mod that adds some slots to all of the earlier armor pieces. So that you have a place to put the Belt Immunity Equipment.

[vangrunz]

I should search before I make a new thread, so here I am!

The Belt Immunity Equipment has a size of 1x1. The only other equipment that has this size is a solar panel which is quite useless a) at night & b) if you have fusion reactors. Nobody needs 30 kW at the half of the day if you can have a permanent output of 750 kW (even 9 pieces of solar panels cannot compensate this, along with batteries).

So if you're not willing to fill up the wasted space with useless solar panels, you'll waste valueable space, just because belt immunity is on demand.

I have no problem that it consumes electricity. But messing up the armour grid is very...unpleasant.

My suggestion:
The armour GUI is anyway very large. There's enough space for an extra slot where you can put in the Belt Immunity Equipment only. The same could also be done with the night vision device, leaving space for parts that accumulate if you have more than one in your grid. Belt Immunity & Night Vision are unique (and the only unique parts).

Unless there's some suitable solution that fits into the gameplay, I'll keep my mod Belt Immunity.

Please make sure that mods like "Advanced Equipment" won't be br0ken if you add something like this.