question about splitter

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disentius
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Re: question about splitter

Post by disentius » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:42 pm

Robot(ic) Arm

Koub
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Re: question about splitter

Post by Koub » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:16 pm

disentius wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:42 pm
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Something like that. But I'm just too used to "inserters" :lol:.
The only point of my otherwise useless intervention was that "is terminology that important ?"
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: question about splitter

Post by steinio » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:55 pm

Koub wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:16 pm
disentius wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:42 pm
Robot(ic) Arm
Something like that. But I'm just too used to "inserters" :lol:.
The only point of my otherwise useless intervention was that "is terminology that important ?"
That important that we had a survey about it in a FFF.
Btw where is the result of it?
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disentius
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Re: question about splitter

Post by disentius » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:18 pm

Koub wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:16 pm
disentius wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:42 pm
Robot(ic) Arm
Something like that. But I'm just too used to "inserters" :lol:.
The only point of my otherwise useless intervention was that "is terminology that important ?"
Yes, it is :D

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Re: question about splitter

Post by dog80 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:08 pm

disentius wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:30 pm
:mrgreen:

spit!.gif
boskid wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:44 pm
split-lanes-without-ub.png
:D
-- edit:
Lets complicate stuff a little:
lane-exchange-with-filter-spliter.png
sadly you both get 0 points due to not beeing able to read the challenge requirements ;) protip: NO FILTERS

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Re: question about splitter

Post by dog80 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:10 pm

boskid wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:44 pm
Lets complicate stuff a little:
lane-exchange-with-filter-spliter.png
but this is excellent use of replacing normal iron with gears, cool

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Re: question about splitter

Post by boskid » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:23 pm

dog80 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:08 pm
sadly you both get 0 points due to not beeing able to read the challenge requirements ;) protip: NO FILTERS
Oh, i see. Here we go:
- no undergrounds
- no filters
- (however there are inserters, there are no limitations for them in challenge)
73938-no-filters-no-undergrounds-solution.png
73938-no-filters-no-undergrounds-solution.png (104.21 KiB) Viewed 384 times
Chests are limited to one slot, inserters insert only when there are less than 10 items in chest (to prevent too much buffer), "extractors" only "extract" when there are at least 4 items in chest. Chests are manually primed with requested item. There are no filter spliters, no filter inserters, only regular inserter that will grab only things it can insert into chest and so it *magicaly* grabs only requested items

-- edit:
And because there are no restrictions that both transport lanes must occupy same belt:
73938-no-single-belt-limitation.png
73938-no-single-belt-limitation.png (36.78 KiB) Viewed 374 times
:D

-- edit:
Another solution:
73938-read-belt-content-solution.png
73938-read-belt-content-solution.png (135.33 KiB) Viewed 374 times
By reading belt if there are 8 items that means belt segment is full and so inserters can grab from belt. In that case they are guaranteed to grab from near side and so split is performed. Priority spliter can be achived by simple row of inserters. Priority feedback is to allow working in condition where one of "input" lanes is empty - there will be items to fill inner belts and so second lane will not be blocked.

-- edit:
73938-read-belt-content-solution-2.png
73938-read-belt-content-solution-2.png (131.55 KiB) Viewed 374 times

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Re: question about splitter

Post by dog80 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:42 am

boskid wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:23 pm
Chests are manually primed with requested item
can you please qoute the part of the challenge description where it sais: it is guaranteed that the items on one part of the belt are always the same... despite the image that created the illusion of this text existing - this text is not part of the challenge description

to more clarify: it is NOT GUARANTEED that there is only ONE KIND of item-type on each side of the belt


----

anyways nice read your answer

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Re: question about splitter

Post by boskid » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:57 am

So my 4'th image from previous is a working solution:
73938-solution-4-works-with-mixed-belt-content.png
73938-solution-4-works-with-mixed-belt-content.png (258.97 KiB) Viewed 332 times
73938-solution-4-works-with-lane-imbalance.png
73938-solution-4-works-with-lane-imbalance.png (232.9 KiB) Viewed 332 times
-- edit:
better solution with inserters without need for feedback loop:
73938-robust-inserter-no-feedback.png
73938-robust-inserter-no-feedback.png (255.66 KiB) Viewed 316 times
Inserter only grabs when there are 8 items on belt (so it is full) so inserter grabs from near side only and proper split is achieved. Far side is never touched and so there is no need for feedback. It needs some items to be left stuck in setup, but this can be any item since it should never leave this setup

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Re: question about splitter

Post by dog80 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:19 pm

ok i understand this works indeed with the only requirement to have full belt on each side... this is not perfect but it works. +1 gg

Now find a way so it works without having to buffer 8 items... :D

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Re: question about splitter

Post by boskid » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:38 pm

dog80 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:19 pm
ok i understand this works indeed with the only requirement to have full belt on each side... this is not perfect but it works. +1 gg

Now find a way so it works without having to buffer 8 items... :D
If you initialy feed this inserter-lane-spliter with cheap crap item, only to feed far lanes on inserter section, then they should not be counted towards buffering as they never move anywhere. There are no restricion in challenge as to "not be using any helper items". In worst case drop belts as items and count them to total entity count required to build this thing.
This setup works fine with any lane imbalance, up to one side being empty. Because inserter section far lanes are occupied by crap, spliter will essentialy move all items incoming from left lane to left-belt-left-lane, and incoming from right lane to right-belt-right-lane and so there is split. Middle two lanes of spliter are blocked and so spliter will not output new items here.
This setup need to buffer at most 3 items per input lane - this is case where input for inserter is not yet full and so inserter must be disabled. Belts are not disabled so this 3 items will go to end of inserter secion where they will wait. By tweaking inserter stack size, checking which item it will grab and item count trigger level it should be possible to go to true 0 buffer.
With spliter-underground you also loose some items because spliter needs to output item on blocked lane to get feedback "this lane is blocked, i am better not giving more items here". Spliter-underground looses 2 items

--
This looks to work fine with 0 internal buffer (stuck items are not counted toward buffer - could be any crap item)

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Re: question about splitter

Post by DaveMcW » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:22 am

Here is a design that does not use inserters:

splitter1.jpg
splitter1.jpg (110 KiB) Viewed 257 times

Ok, it is very fragile and will break if input or output drops below 100%. :D

Here is an improved version that shuts down if it detects input or output problems, and does not require a higher tier belt.



splitter2.jpg
splitter2.jpg (119.46 KiB) Viewed 248 times

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Re: question about splitter

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:46 am

Interesting, I wonder how it compares to mine...

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Re: question about splitter

Post by wicklig » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:58 pm

Hey there!

Since they reworked the splitters, things like that are just so much easier. I really like that they can do input / output priority now, and in combination with the filter tool, you can get this result with just a few clicks.

Also, the belts don't need to be on 100%, hooray!

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Re: question about splitter

Post by wicklig » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:12 pm

Oh and one more thing, to state the obvious: If you add one more splitter for each lane, you get the same result as in the posts above. just in a much easier way.
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Re: question about splitter

Post by mmmPI » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:40 pm

dog80 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 pm

CHALLENGE TIME:::

rebuild this functionality !!!WITHOUT!!! underground-belt

e: and ofcourse without filters...
wicklig wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:58 pm
Since they reworked the splitters, things like that are just so much easier.
I guess this is why they reworked the splitters :D

because else you got to find a complicated setup to work around, or just use inserter, or underground belt, but that's too easy right ? x)

Nice Ribbon anyway :)

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Re: question about splitter

Post by boskid » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:43 pm

And next solution:
73938-sideloading-solution.png
73938-sideloading-solution.png (149.25 KiB) Viewed 112 times

Lane split is performed on spliter where inner two output lanes are blocked by items and so left input lane will go only go left output left lane, and right input lane will go to right output right lane.
Lane extraction is performed using sideloading with condition controlled belt: output is released only when there are 8 items on source belt. This should guarantee that only one lane can sideload onto output belt. Because of this second lane will not move and so spliter works fine.

Pros:
- works with any lane imbalance
- true split with mixed belt content
- keeps item order
- full throughput even on blue belts
- no inserters required
Cons:
- non zero buffer

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Re: question about splitter

Post by mmmPI » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:22 pm

splitest.jpg
splitest.jpg (557.41 KiB) Viewed 103 times
This thing (almost) function
cons:
when the output lane backs up it messes up everything.
When only one side of belt has material, it has to wait for material on the other side.
Every time you replace a splitter it makes something different
Pros:
Every time you replace a splitter it makes something different
in some cases it does the correct thing .
If you don't touch anything it stays the same for long time.

Edit: other slightly different version with protection from output problem detection. This one you don't need to change any splitter the system alter the sequence of items just enough so that it function properly the first time with no item getting in the wrong belt even the first few.
spltfi.jpg
spltfi.jpg (306.03 KiB) Viewed 43 times


It stutter when the lane are imbalance which is not the exact same functionnality as op proposed though. It is count perfect for item.

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