So how's your OCD doing?

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Trebor
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So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:34 am

So early on I decided my perimeter defense would use small electric poles stretched to their maximum distance and they would stick to that grid. The only exception would be if cliffs or water got in the way, but the poles would get back to that grid as soon as possible.

Everything is going good, each time I had to expand I'd go out a couple of radar widths find where a radar could be placed that didn't overlap existing radars and the pole grid matched up and make a 90 degree turn. Everything is nice and neat and my OCD is happy.

I research artillery build an artillery wagon and think "I should encircle my base with a track and send the artillery train on patrol". Determine a nice distance between wall and track set down first station run small poles to it to connect it to the perimeter defense network (red wire). Determine how far apart stations will be, set down second station wire it up. All is looking good, come to first 90 degree turn everything still lines up.

Come to second 90 degree turn and crash into my OCD. Small electric poles are on a 7 tile grid rails are always on even tiles. My blueprint (which includes poles and rail) doesn't line up with the existing wall. To keep my OCD happy I need to move my wall out one small pole width.

Well I know what I'll be doing for the next few days.

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:04 am

Argh, a blueprint that has small poles and rails going left won't line up when rotated to point right!

Trebor
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:34 am

Time to come to new terms with my OCD for this base. So another thing I was doing was building a thin defense, one gun turret ever other small pole, 3 poles every 2 turrets. This works for this world because I tuned biters way down while still allowing them to expand and attack. (I play a slow game 600+ hours and yellow science is not fully automated yet.) The spacing I wanted for my artillery stations was 4 small poles between the wall and track. But if I do that I'd have to abandon having a turret in the corners or abandon turrets every other pole.

I think I'm going to move the artillery track one small pole closer to the wall. Rip up all the track I've placed these past few hours.

Side note, yellow science just needs to connect the batteries belt to the labs, been waiting on mining 6mil+ iron ore so belt is not on top of ore, only a couple k to go. (It's that OCD thing again.)

Trebor
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:12 am

Ripped up everything, replaced it 3 poles away, same problem. I really shouldn't play when I'm tired. Top and left side will share a blueprint, right and bottom will share a slightly different one.

Have fun with your OCD, night-night.

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Nefrums » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:09 am

Why not build artillery turrets instead? I assume you have your logistics network extended to the walls already for repairs. Aritllery shells are not used in huge quantities so bots will work fine delivering them, even over large distances.

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disentius
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by disentius » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:34 am

Thanks Trebor:)
My OCD feels for your OCD
In my case: Substation/roboport woes)

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by theolderbeholder » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:45 pm

otoh, it is always good to know it is not me being too stupid to build a proper blueprint, so thanks for sharing your pain.
I, for one, build all the corners by hand and take the train grid for reference. So far, it has come out nicely (my nice, not yours :P ) using a medium pole in the corners.

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Ackos » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:44 pm

I dont have OCD. My bases are haphazard, and would make your brain melt. ;)

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:30 pm

Nefrums wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:09 am
I assume
Never assume about another person's factory. This factory would make most people cringe. I've been meaning to automate wall repairs but, remember that 6m ore patch that is preventing me from finishing yellow science? Once it's out of the way I plan to build several production units (military/logistics) to get the items required for wall repair. I just can't put things on the other side of that patch because if the placement is wrong I'd have to rip it up. Anyway this is what 5m of ore looks like in boxes:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.45.21 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.45.21 AM.png (2.22 MiB) Viewed 478 times

This is what the factory looks like at the moment with the broken wall in the southwest where the expansion is happening:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.25.10 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.25.10 AM.png (490.25 KiB) Viewed 478 times

One of the first things you will notice is it is belt based, but what you can't see is 90% of those belts are yellow, 22 yellow belts of iron ore and 15 yellow belts of copper ore, a set of 2 4 belt sushi (one set going right, one left), plus some others. At least that's what it starts out as on the left, when it gets to the right it's everything needed for whatever still need a production unit for including the rocket parts.

The next thing you might notice is no large solar farms. I do know how to make solar panels, in fact most of my radars are self powered:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 8.00.56 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 8.00.56 AM.png (98.37 KiB) Viewed 478 times


(If anyone has a prettier self powered setup I could be perswaded to change.)

Without using solar this factory is currently using steam engines. A lot of steam engines, currently it's at 262, with space reserved for 736:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.26.16 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.26.16 AM.png (48.25 KiB) Viewed 478 times
Other methods of generating power may be added BUT NOT UNTIL LATER. Sorry for the yelling, just wanted to stop that discussion before it started. Just remember my factory is not your factory. I'm open to criticism but only if it doesn't change the 'theme' of the factory.

I'm not sure how much of that will be needed once rockets are launching and space science starts to be consumed. It's hard to tell because the power window doesn't display most of the factory because every production unit including the two separate oil (normal and coal liquefaction) refineries are isolated via accumulators.
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 8.55.17 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 8.55.17 AM.png (357.46 KiB) Viewed 478 times
All production units are powered like this: Main power grid -> accumulators -> control grid (combiners and stuff) -> power switch -> assemblers/furnaces.

Those 5 blue assemblers, they're on the main power because they are barreling oil for use in all the other production units and I didn't want them to stop just because the oil refinery ran out of electricity (refinery accumulators ran dry). Most of the radars will go away as I expand, I plan on placing them just far enough from the wall that the solar planets will fit. The pumpjacks need to be isolated, just haven't gotten around to it yet. A lot of the inserters are for the wall and various chests holding stuff that was mined out of the way. Oh the lights! New picture:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 9.11.12 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 9.11.12 AM.png (665.58 KiB) Viewed 478 times
At the time the picture was taken, 9 units were being requested to work (we're not smelting iron or copper, if we were the number would be over 15), all 9 are actually doing work, 5 units are missing resources (a unit can be both working and missing resources as long as it has the minimum), and 0 units lack electricity. Note the lack of electricity number could be off as the combiners could also loose electricity.

So back to logistics networks and your assumption. Currently the only place using logistics robots is the item mall:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.27.43 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.27.43 AM.png (91.81 KiB) Viewed 478 times
Ugly beast, built it just because I had spare time. It's laid out like the player's build window, I don't like it, don't know a better layout. Anyway it has one assembler/furnace/whatever per item that can be placed on map. The only thing I've done to speed it up is belt in iron/copper/steel. It steals crude oil from the main base and returns the empty barrels. (Now that's another nightmare, sushi barrel belt and management of empties.) The only thing it supplies is artillery shells to the (new and incomplete) artillery rail. Note there are two artillery turrets, one on the upper right and one on the upper left next to the oil storage tanks. I just noticed the turret on the left is missing (note no turret range overlay), forgot I removed it so I could get the spacing down between artillery stations.

Eventually (there's always something more urgent) the walls will be self repairing. Here is what I plan (taken from an earlier factory):
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.22.52 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.22.52 AM.png (615.93 KiB) Viewed 478 times
Note the sushi belt, it has everything a repair bot would want. There's a good chance you would not want this system in your factory. If one of those storage chests wants a wall for example and one is not available in the sorter, walls are requested from the factory. Because of belt lag the sorter is flooded with 10s or 100s of walls and whatever else was short at the time. It could probably be fixed if I counted everything going on and off the belt.

Forgot what my point was. Here's a close up of the belt if you want to count the items on it:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.22.16 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 7.22.16 AM.png (368.69 KiB) Viewed 478 times

Trebor
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:35 pm

theolderbeholder wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:45 pm
my nice, not yours :P
That's what I'm talking about ;)

Trebor
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:36 pm

Ackos wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:44 pm
I dont have OCD. My bases are haphazard, and would make your brain melt. ;)
LOL!!

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Amarula » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:56 pm

My OCD is very happy looking at the OCD you have shared, thank you! :-)

I feel your blueprint pain, it would be soooo helpful to be able to mirror image a blueprint not just rotate it!

And I really like your number light display, would you mind sharing the blueprint you are using for that?

I have never approached 5M ore in boxes, but I did get 20M green circuits!

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by nosports » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:00 pm

Trebor wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:30 pm
Nefrums wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:09 am
I assume
Never assume about another person's factory.
never here will i suspect :lol:
we are all somewhat crazy to get that waste of time going....
and it s a nice thing you can build in 1.000.000 ways (and counting.....)
Trebor wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:30 pm
Eventually (there's always something more urgent) the walls will be self repairing. Here is what I plan (taken from an earlier factory):Wall repair roboportNote the sushi belt, it has everything a repair bot would want. There's a good chance you would not want this system in your factory. If one of those storage chests wants a wall for example and one is not available in the sorter, walls are requested from the factory. Because of belt lag the sorter is flooded with 10s or 100s of walls and whatever else was short at the time. It could probably be fixed if I counted everything going on and off the belt.
I think there is a simpler way for solving this....

Chain a row (say 10 or 20) belts in a row to a constant-combinator and a inserter, with a data cable
set the inserter active to fetch some of the items from the belt when a certain number in your row is surveilanced to pick them of and get them ready when really needed......
with the combinator you can seht the max numbers of things in the row through a negative number (will then add up, and if the result is > 0 then the inserter will fetch the item)

or so at least would my plan .....

Trebor
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:31 pm

Did you know that the length of 3 small poles is out side the range of gun turrets?
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 10.29.03 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 10.29.03 AM.png (15.33 KiB) Viewed 465 times

Well I didn't:
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 10.29.19 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 10.29.19 AM.png (211.08 KiB) Viewed 465 times

Trebor
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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:46 pm

nosports wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:00 pm
Chain a row (say 10 or 20) belts in a row to a constant-combinator and a inserter, with a data cable
set the inserter active to fetch some of the items from the belt when a certain number in your row is surveilanced to pick them of and get them ready when really needed......
with the combinator you can seht the max numbers of things in the row through a negative number (will then add up, and if the result is > 0 then the inserter will fetch the item)
I'm doing something close to that in the pic. It's just the sushi belt is replacing (I think it's 15) multiple belts. There's a storage logistic chest that is filled via a filter inserter/constant combiner, if something is missing from the chest a request goes out until it's picked up from the belt.
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 10.36.41 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-02 at 10.36.41 AM.png (1.86 MiB) Viewed 464 times
The belt coming from the bottom gets all items in bulk (because there is a delay between when an item is requested and when the wall sees it), the first thing that happens with the items is to sort them into chests. The chests are also connected to the network so when something is requested by the roboport if it's in the chest the factory does not send anything. However when the factory is notified it sends a lot. On this wall each roboport is a separate logistic network, one space between networks so they can repair each other.

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:57 pm

Amarula wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:56 pm
My OCD is very happy looking at the OCD you have shared, thank you! :-)
And I really like your number light display, would you mind sharing the blueprint you are using for that?
It's not really mine, I found it here:
viewtopic.php?f=193&t=58559&p=348726&hi ... ay#p348726

But the blueprint there needs a little extra to separate the digits to separate displays. So here is a blueprint with the four numbers (P-produce, W-working, R-resources missing, E-electricity missing).

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:15 pm

Found a limitation (it's not a bug because I'm not going to fix it) in the artillery station enabling/disabling. It was set to disable all artillery stations except the one at the item mall (restock/refuel) when the artillery wagon's inventory falls below 5. However if the wagon is destroyed its inventory can't be read because there is nothing to read from. That means the last (larger than 5) value read continues to be used and no stations are disabled.

Here's the workaround, connect a constant combiner with 1 artillery shell to the network.

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Amarula » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:24 pm

Trebor wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:57 pm
It's not really mine, I found it here:
viewtopic.php?f=193&t=58559&p=348726&hi ... ay#p348726

But the blueprint there needs a little extra to separate the digits to separate displays. So here is a blueprint with the four numbers (P-produce, W-working, R-resources missing, E-electricity missing).
Thank you!

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:05 am

Well I've had time to sleep and time to think so it's time to get back on track. I've been thinking about how the rail grid and power pole grids interact. For the large pole there is no problem because the pole takes up a 2x2 area just like the strait rail. But for the small and medium poles there are 4 locations to place the pole next to a rail:

Code: Select all

rr
rr
pp
pp
Regardless of where you place the pole there is no way to rotate the two together so the original and new pole overlap because of the rail grid. However you can build a stretch of rail consisting of two poles that can overlap:

Code: Select all

rrRRrrRR
rrRRrrRR
p123456p
........

Medium poles follow the same pattern:

rrRRrrRRrr
p12345678p
This can be rotated so the first pole of the original orientation will overlap with the last pole of the rotated copy. By extending this pattern just a little you can fill your map with rail and power poles stretched to their limits:

Code: Select all

rrRRrrRRrrRRrrRR
p123456p123456p1
There are probably two things that were preventing my blue print from aligning correctly with the power poles and rails.
  • The blueprint may not have been the correct length using the above rules.
  • The length of my walls also had to align with complete non-overlapping radar coverage (and gun turrets every other pole [let's just add more conditions while we're at it]). Which would force a 90 degree turn that would break the above rules.

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Re: So how's your OCD doing?

Post by Trebor » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:31 am

How to teach your OCD about radars. First you learn that radars show you where the biters are when you're not around. Then you learn more radars show you more map. You soon learn you can place radars just far apart that their coverage does not overlap.

This is how I learned to place radars. Walk around drop a radar and power it up, check map is their a gap between radar coverage? No, pick up radar move a little drop/power, gap? Back up place radar in permanent location. Repeat for several hours before noticing when you are walking around with a radar in your hand the mini-map shows radar coverage. Doh!

Things are faster now, walk around notice when the coverage overlaps then doesn't to find where to place radar.

Look at the map, then the OCD kicks in. The radars aren't lining up. Place mouse on map move left/right and up/down. Have to place radars on grid. Let's do that for an hour or two or maybe it's days who knows.

The one day while pausing game you notice those annoying lines while looking at a radar and Ding/Ding!! I can place all my radars by counting tiles of the radars to the left and above and they'll all line up.

Thankfully it doesn't take long to get tired of counting be for giving up and just start placing all radars in the upper right corner of a chunk.

So I just spent several hours moving all my radars to as close to the upper right of a chunk as they could be place without landfilling or blowing up cliffs or moving different parts of the factory.

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