Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post all other topics which do not belong to any other category.
Post Reply
mrt144
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:30 pm
Contact:

Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by mrt144 »

So I finally got to the point where I need to launch rockets to continue down the tech tree. Super exciting and was able to do that on the initial footprint I specced out which is a huge relief. But I'm kind of in a situation now where I feel like I'll need to expand a bit and set up the rocket supply chain which requires a huge amount of resources.

1. I found a spot to the southwest of my main base and built out a huge ring around it using robots. It has about 16 Mil in Copper, 11 Mil in Iron, Coal out the wazoo and even two good uranium patches at 4.5 mil and 1.6 mil respectively.

2. My foundaries for copper and iron are filled up completely - there is still a bottleneck with plate production that ebbs and flows based on the trains carrying ore. This affects copper wire production moreso than iron.

3. Would it be wise to do onsite plate production, uranium included, in this new spot and then ship the plates via rail to the main base? Or is expanding the foundaries and shipping more ore solid enough? I lean towards trying plate shipping at this point just to save on space at the main base while also allowing some on site at the expansion location for ancillary production of artillery shells and other small products that come up as needed.

4. If I do onsite plate production how is it best to keep them segregated for the transfer trains? I imagine that means less constant throughput of plates and more train trips but also means less potential for slipups happening where I get a tiny % of copper on the iron bus and iron on the copper bus.

Thanks!

evopwr
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by evopwr »

This is similar to the question raised by zOldBulldog a few days ago - might pay to have a read of that thread.

I think most people go for centralised smelting, instead of remote smelting. Altneratively some people go even more extreme, and create green circuits remotely, meaning less trains.

You need to consider once you use up the new ore patches you've found, then you'll have to go somewhere else - do you really want to move all the smelting stuff as well?

For smelting, make sure you beacon smelters like mad. I have a BP (sorry at work, so cant share it), that uses a full incoming blue line of ore, and produces a full blue line output.
It has 8 smelters, 8 beacons, then another 8 smelters on the other side. raw ore gets split, and runs each side of the beacon, and on the outer edge is the output belts which then merge back together.
All beacons should have max Speed modules, and smelters have max Productivity modules. And expect your power usage to quadruple!
I think I got to the point where I was running 5 blue belts for iron, coming from 5 of these setups mentioned above.
Then had an additional 3 setups creating iron plates that fed straight in to another 3 setups that turned them steel.
Cant remember how much copper, think it was 6 or 7 above above setups.

Remember to leave yourself a lot of room to expand even more later :)

zOldBulldog
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by zOldBulldog »

The method to use might depend on your goal. My thread covers the generic matter of smelting and it got some useful replies,.

But if your goal is purely to launch one rocket, those deposits are most of what you need for it.

Check out Nilaus' Modular Megabase series, more specifically I think it is episode 19 that has the final design for a rocket launch compact module that takes in supplies (by train, although you have most of them locally) and launches the rocket.

If you go the localized route I recommend:

- Mine and process the Uranium locally, and use it to feed a 480MW 4-reactor power plant.
- Use the power and beacon and electric smelters to process the ores into iron plate, steel and copper plate.
- Build one rocket module.
- Import what you don't have by train.
- Send any excess plate and steel to your base by train (or not, especially if you plan to launch multiple rockets for space science bottles, then you'd just send the science to your base).

I did exactly that in my previous map. I ended up launching the first rocket with just my 3x3 chunk raw ore belt-fed Jumpstart base, Uranium outpost, one nuclear power plant, and one rocket module with attached local smelting. I literally setup the bus and smelting facility *after* launching the rocket. It was a curious experiment, and quite enlightening. I would have never thought it possible until I did it. The only caviar is that I was busy with repeated redesigns of the Jumpstart base, so I probably took a lot longer than simply building those things.

zOldBulldog
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by zOldBulldog »

zOldBulldog wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:21 am
The method to use might depend on your goal. My thread covers the generic matter of smelting and it got some useful replies,. For the generic smelting plan I settled on the concept of a few semi-centralized smelting facilities, kind of a midpoint between smelting at the base and smelting at the mines, and it will keep ore train traffic out of the main rail lines.

But if your goal is purely to launch one rocket, those deposits are most of what you need for it.

Check out Nilaus' Modular Megabase series, more specifically I think it is episode 19 that has the final design for a rocket launch compact module that takes in supplies (by train, although you have most of them locally) and launches the rocket.

If you go the localized route I recommend:

- Mine and process the Uranium locally, and use it to feed a 480MW 4-reactor power plant.
- Use the power and beacon and electric smelters to process the ores into iron plate, steel and copper plate.
- Build one rocket module.
- Import what you don't have by train.
- Send any excess plate and steel to your base by train (or not, especially if you plan to launch multiple rockets for space science bottles, then you'd just send the science to your base).

I did exactly that in my previous map. I ended up launching the first rocket with just my 3x3 chunk raw ore belt-fed Jumpstart base, Uranium outpost, one nuclear power plant, and one rocket module with attached local smelting. I literally setup the bus and proper smelting facility *after* launching the rocket. It was a curious experiment, and quite enlightening. I would have never thought it possible until I did it. The only caviat is that I was busy with repeated redesigns of the Jumpstart base (as I was trying to perfect it) , so I probably took a lot longer than simply building those things.

Dune
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:27 am
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by Dune »

Off site production, commonly called an outpost, is typical of any factorio base that uses trains.

You can have a mine outpost, that mines ore and loads a train. The train brings the ore to another location for processing. Sounds like you do this already, and bring it to the main base for processing.

You can have the ore brought to a smelting-foundry-mill for processing to plate. Then you can bring that plate elsewhere, such as the main base, or another outpost. Say one that makes circuits, gears, batteries or even radars. It depends on your needs.

You'll find as your base grows that outposts that specialize in a particular item are quite common.

I've a megabase YouTube series that has recently covered building the Iron Plate outpost. It was a rather long stream, so I've included jumping right to where the outpost was begun. The actual use of it came in another video.

You can find it here - https://youtu.be/ABpreAapaq0?t=5h19m31s
Image

LuckyLuke
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by LuckyLuke »

I'v played a while and started creating outposts whenever there is a need to. If the patch is close to my factory mostly i'll just put belts. If is the way further i'll use trains. And if there are limitations for expanding like cliffs / water / enemies or - and that happens quite often - i forgot that i like to expand widely and there is simply no place left - i use the outpost to create plates or sometimes even products. I guess it depends on a few things, like your playstile and your factory. If you take a look at those mega-bases that Dune mentioned - some of them are like outpots in the factory itself, but this again is a playstile. :)

Hannu
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:27 am
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by Hannu »

mrt144 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:08 pm
3. Would it be wise to do onsite plate production, uranium included, in this new spot and then ship the plates via rail to the main base? Or is expanding the foundaries and shipping more ore solid enough? I lean towards trying plate shipping at this point just to save on space at the main base while also allowing some on site at the expansion location for ancillary production of artillery shells and other small products that come up as needed.
It is difficult to say which is the wisest option. At least it need more information from your play style. Are you going to build megabase or run hundreds of hours? If not, new ores will probably be enough for the end of the game and there is no practical difference. If it is probable that you will need new ore patches during the game, I would build separate smelting plant between the ore deposit and main base. It depends also how do you play with biters. Do you clear and enclose the whole area or only production plants and mining outposts.

In any case you can technically make in with all styles. Decisions are more what do you like to do than what is technically the best. You can try to make smelting in outpost now and when the ores deplete just replace miners with unload station and get more ore from further deposits. If you try both you have better information to decide it in next game.

4. If I do onsite plate production how is it best to keep them segregated for the transfer trains? I imagine that means less constant throughput of plates and more train trips but also means less potential for slipups happening where I get a tiny % of copper on the iron bus and iron on the copper bus.
I use always filters with wagons and filter inserters on unload stations and recommend it for everyone. It costs very little more time and resources but pays everything back at first time they prevent bus contamination.

I make usually new mines further on same general direction where my smelter is. Then ore trains have no reason to drive through central section of my base. If you make a base with huge throughput, you may consider to keep ore lines separate. Path finding is not perfect and sometimes trains run on very strange routes. I do not care it, but if you want to get maximum throughput, it may be wise to do so.

mrt144
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by mrt144 »

Hannu wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:00 am
mrt144 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:08 pm
3. Would it be wise to do onsite plate production, uranium included, in this new spot and then ship the plates via rail to the main base? Or is expanding the foundaries and shipping more ore solid enough? I lean towards trying plate shipping at this point just to save on space at the main base while also allowing some on site at the expansion location for ancillary production of artillery shells and other small products that come up as needed.
It is difficult to say which is the wisest option. At least it need more information from your play style. Are you going to build megabase or run hundreds of hours? If not, new ores will probably be enough for the end of the game and there is no practical difference. If it is probable that you will need new ore patches during the game, I would build separate smelting plant between the ore deposit and main base. It depends also how do you play with biters. Do you clear and enclose the whole area or only production plants and mining outposts.

In any case you can technically make in with all styles. Decisions are more what do you like to do than what is technically the best. You can try to make smelting in outpost now and when the ores deplete just replace miners with unload station and get more ore from further deposits. If you try both you have better information to decide it in next game.

4. If I do onsite plate production how is it best to keep them segregated for the transfer trains? I imagine that means less constant throughput of plates and more train trips but also means less potential for slipups happening where I get a tiny % of copper on the iron bus and iron on the copper bus.
I use always filters with wagons and filter inserters on unload stations and recommend it for everyone. It costs very little more time and resources but pays everything back at first time they prevent bus contamination.

I make usually new mines further on same general direction where my smelter is. Then ore trains have no reason to drive through central section of my base. If you make a base with huge throughput, you may consider to keep ore lines separate. Path finding is not perfect and sometimes trains run on very strange routes. I do not care it, but if you want to get maximum throughput, it may be wise to do so.
Thank you everyone for your feedback!

I'll respond to this one because it attempts to qualify my situation a bit more.

Basically I want to launch a bunch rockets and practice some of my procedures and designs for another playthrough. This is my first full play through after I picked up the game last month and familiarized myself with the systems of the game. I will probably restart on a new map with new challenges and try to be way more efficient in how I do things. Also, I want to ramp up the challenge in a future playthrough by increasing biters and paring back the resources around me, forcing me out of my comfort zone baseline I established in this game.

Also, for what its worth, I generally like to play a game 'in the wilds' for a month or so before asking questions or researching and then seeing if anything I did reconciles with SOPs already established by the community. I totally make use of the filter inserters for trains, especially in my sulfuric acid train line to the uranium mines where the loaders are set to empty barrels and the unloaders to full sulfuric barrels so the concept is already in my quiver. It's actually been a hoot to see the iterations of my train stations get more and more advanced and less fussy as the game has gone on.

Also, my play style in building has been a bit hamfisted where I am being redundant, to a fault almost, just to avoid having to get deep into logic puzzles. I want to save some of that fancy pants magic for another playthrough - I kind of wanted to see just how far I could go with a 'dumbfire' factory and I guess the answer is to 'end game'. With biters I was passive up until artillery and then I just went HAM on the biters nests once I could manually target their bases from afar. Nothing is as satisfying as selecting your target and then seeing the little shells zoom across the screen to blow those little punks to hell.

So I think I'll try off siting it just to see how it works and make myself comfortable with the option in future runs. If I was to characterize this game it's been a slow growing blob. Next one I want to be like a rapidly growing weed that just goes where the nutrients and water is and keep my footprint tight.

Thanks for pointing me in a direction everyone!

Dry Hairy Tree
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Off siting plate production for first huge exapansion?

Post by Dry Hairy Tree »

1 wagon load of steel = 10 x wagon loads of iron ore.

1 wagon load of gears = 4 x wagon loads of iron ore.

1 wagon load of green circuits = 6 x wagon loads of copper ore + 4 x wagon loads of iron ore.

To reduce traffic in a base the easiest way I know of is to make things offsite. Plates are the least effective (2 x).

Post Reply

Return to “General discussion”