Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

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Jap2.0
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Jap2.0 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:51 pm

Bilka wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:53 am
@Jap2.0 The upcoming features page on the wiki is fully updated, so you can use it to update your post. If you look at the source of the page you will find what I commented out as not part of 0.17, which should make it rather easy separate the versions in your post. I hope it helps :)
Thanks a lot! Unfortunately I'm away from my PC again today, but I'll look at that more tomorrow (and hopefully not get distracted by actually playing Factorio :P).
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by catma » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:38 am

THIS is the only item left I care for:

"Recipe tree GUI (Oxyd). This should be the foundation of some kind of ingame factoriopedia."

This is what makes a 200+ vanila playthru ended by mod limitations into a 2000+ hours mod-enhanced playthru. Per player (among my friends, at least)

Me and my 4 brothers have been HOPELESSLY stuck 1/4 thru a AngelBobSpaceX because we can't figure out heads or tails of one recipe or another or another or another or another!!!

While a lot of players have been "blindly making one of everything to see the next recipe step so they can make one of everything to see the next recipe step" fractally to cope, or MUCH WORSE have followed a static walkthru that wins without experiencing 10% of the content this mod combo has to offer, my entire family has decided to STOP PLAYING UNTIL WE GET "FACTORIOPEDIA STYLE RECIPE TREES".

Getting these would increase the value of the game TENFOLD OR MORE to us.

I'm sure there is a suggestions thread somewhere so we can mention this, but all 5 of us have been looking for that thread specifically and failed to find it for some reason???

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Zavian » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 am

catma wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:38 am
Me and my 4 brothers have been HOPELESSLY stuck 1/4 thru a AngelBobSpaceX because we can't figure out heads or tails of one recipe or another or another or another or another!!!
Try FNEI viewtopic.php?f=190&t=49461

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by catma » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 am

FNEI isn't working out for us --- we need the 'factoriopedia' recipe tree generator. as 84 hours, 23 minutes of being stuck due to FNEI limitations (plus more from my brothers trying the same thing --- they all got stuck earlier in the same mods game) has been UNACCEPTABLE while other games have recipe tree generated.

P.S.: none of us would have bought the game if the 'factoriopedia' wasn't in the roadmap. We don't have the tiny bit of extra rote memory present in "factorio nerds" despite being the embodiment of nerdism and Otaku otherwise, and can't get our modded factorio fix without this improvement.

P.P.S.: factorio may be 'mainstreamed' a serious bit if this feature was added. As in, EXTRA SALES. As much as +1800 hours of play for some players get you excited, USABILITY to get more players is what would get Factorio team the extra money on top of the extra excitement.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Bilka » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:21 am

catma wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 am
FNEI isn't working out for us --- we need the 'factoriopedia' recipe tree generator. as 84 hours, 23 minutes of being stuck due to FNEI limitations (plus more from my brothers trying the same thing --- they all got stuck earlier in the same mods game) has been UNACCEPTABLE while other games have recipe tree generated.
How do you think an "in-game factoriopedia" should be different from FNEI so that it is more helpful? What limitations does FNEI have that bother you?
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by catma » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 am

Bilka wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:21 am
catma wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 am
FNEI isn't working out for us --- we need the 'factoriopedia' recipe tree generator. as 84 hours, 23 minutes of being stuck due to FNEI limitations (plus more from my brothers trying the same thing --- they all got stuck earlier in the same mods game) has been UNACCEPTABLE while other games have recipe tree generated.
How do you think an "in-game factoriopedia" should be different from FNEI so that it is more helpful? What limitations does FNEI have that bother you?
Simply put, I could not figure out what rock produced, and how crystals work in AngelBobSpaceX in several days. Suspecting that rock is somehow an input to somehow crystals, and looking it up, should be a 2 minutes generated chart lookup at most, not a 7-ingredients-or-outputs deep kept track on paper because there is NO WAY my mind can remember more than 2-deep-recursive stuff at once. Even paper diagrams fail after 4-5 due to tediousness and occasional human error costing an entire hour of work.

Me and my 4 brothers (all adult programmers) stopped our AngelBobSpaceX playthrus (5 solo; 1 multiplayer) until this is fixed, since working together to figure it out didn't work either. I'm aware some players sorta wing it by producing everything produceable without a plan, and eventually discovering the connections too tedious to research in FNEI by tediously trying everything, but that's NOT how we want to play.

TLDR version: I need to look up far more than 1 item deep what is connected to what, because my brain and the brains of my 4 brothers (adult programmers) can't remember enough in short-term memory to use FNEI to figure out certain necessary recipes; we're STUCK and it sucks REAL BAD.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by dubax » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:41 pm

catma wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 am
Bilka wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:21 am
catma wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 am
FNEI isn't working out for us --- we need the 'factoriopedia' recipe tree generator. as 84 hours, 23 minutes of being stuck due to FNEI limitations (plus more from my brothers trying the same thing --- they all got stuck earlier in the same mods game) has been UNACCEPTABLE while other games have recipe tree generated.
How do you think an "in-game factoriopedia" should be different from FNEI so that it is more helpful? What limitations does FNEI have that bother you?
Simply put, I could not figure out what rock produced, and how crystals work in AngelBobSpaceX in several days. Suspecting that rock is somehow an input to somehow crystals, and looking it up, should be a 2 minutes generated chart lookup at most, not a 7-ingredients-or-outputs deep kept track on paper because there is NO WAY my mind can remember more than 2-deep-recursive stuff at once. Even paper diagrams fail after 4-5 due to tediousness and occasional human error costing an entire hour of work.

Me and my 4 brothers (all adult programmers) stopped our AngelBobSpaceX playthrus (5 solo; 1 multiplayer) until this is fixed, since working together to figure it out didn't work either. I'm aware some players sorta wing it by producing everything produceable without a plan, and eventually discovering the connections too tedious to research in FNEI by tediously trying everything, but that's NOT how we want to play.

TLDR version: I need to look up far more than 1 item deep what is connected to what, because my brain and the brains of my 4 brothers (adult programmers) can't remember enough in short-term memory to use FNEI to figure out certain necessary recipes; we're STUCK and it sucks REAL BAD.
You know, there's tons of angels tutorials on youtube. Nilaus has a good series.

The only issue I have with FNEI and heavy modding is that FNEI scrapes things that aren't used, so there are dead ends sometimes. Search is also messed up sometimes when the in-game visible name of an item isn't the same as its 'coded' name (I recall a mixup with bauxite and something else that took me a while to figure out).

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by xfir01 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:29 pm

catma wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 am
Simply put, I could not figure out what rock produced, and how crystals work in AngelBobSpaceX in several days. Suspecting that rock is somehow an input to somehow crystals, and looking it up, should be a 2 minutes generated chart lookup at most, not a 7-ingredients-or-outputs deep kept track on paper because there is NO WAY my mind can remember more than 2-deep-recursive stuff at once. Even paper diagrams fail after 4-5 due to tediousness and occasional human error costing an entire hour of work.
Thing is, a lot of AngelBob's recipies ARE 7-ingredients-or-outputs. I want X, there's several processes that produce X, some intentionally, others as a byproduct.

Take CO2, for example. (working from memory, sorry for inaccuracies) You can make that by throwing Coal into a liquifier, or as an output on limestone, or nickel, or by putting wood pellets into a liquifier, or splitting synthesis gas, or a number of other ways I'm probably forgetting. FNEI can only really tell you what recipes produce what outputs, but it can't tell you what production chain is optimal. An auto-generated flowchart isn't going to be much better, for the same reason: it can't distinguish between primary production chains and alternate paths. Add in the recursive paths (looking at you water treatment) and it's just going to end up as useless spaghetti.

I mean look at this: https://imgur.com/r/factorio/pRYew

Hand created, not exactly simply, and that's ignoring the production chains for several of the inputs/outputs.

I usually end up writing out a flowchart by hand for some of the chemical processes, starting with the desired product and working backwards.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Sarkazeoh » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:35 pm

Rocket escape pod is no longer a thing. Win by only launching a rocket with or without a satellite. Source = https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-275

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Bilka » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 pm

Sarkazeoh wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:35 pm
Rocket escape pod is no longer a thing. Win by only launching a rocket with or without a satellite. Source = https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-275
The first post has been outdated for a while. You can find reliable information here: https://wiki.factorio.com/Upcoming_features
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Nova » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:31 am

@Bilka: Jap2.0 regularly updates the first post. If there are still incomplete / wrong informations, just tell him that so he can update it. :)
Greetings, Nova.
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Jap2.0 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:32 am

Nova wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:31 am
@Bilka: Jap2.0 regularly updates the first post. If there are still incomplete / wrong informations, just tell him that so he can update it. :)
No, unfortunately he's right, it's rather incomplete from the last few weeks (mostly since the big changes with 0.18 and things); I really need to work on that more.
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Nova » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:33 am

Oh, sorry then. It did look like you still updated it as the "edit" time regularly changed.
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:37 pm

Nova wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:33 am
Oh, sorry then. It did look like you still updated it as the "edit" time regularly changed.
Actually I'm doing my best to get it back up to date again at the moment, but no promises until it's done.
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by vjbone » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:00 pm

upgrade planner second link must be https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-255

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Jap2.0 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:43 pm

vjbone wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:00 pm
upgrade planner second link must be https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-255
Thanks.
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by DawnbringerHUN » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:21 am

I just still want to download the required mods when joining the server. Nothing special.
Nice list btw.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Jap2.0 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:46 am

DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:21 am
I just still want to download the required mods when joining the server. Nothing special.
Nice list btw.
Thanks!
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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by GrumpyJoe » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:56 am

catma wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 am

"edit: anything AB + FNEI related"
FNEI has 2 problems.
As said above, it shows dead ends, when you follow the trail to things Angel (and maybe Bob) hasn´t released yet (so its hidden behind a research that doesn´t exist and stays "locked"). Platinum comes to mind here. As long as its generated in the raw game files at startup, FNEI finds it.
But those dead ends hold true, even without FNEI, as im pretty sure you could make Cobalt plates, which have no use. (dont mix them up with Cobalt-Steel)
Edit: On a 2nd thought, you might use them to pulverize and mix with Tungsten, but ive always used Nickel for that. /shrug
AB is never as "complete" as vanilla will be. Mods are allowed to do that, would be a pretty huge outcry if that would happen to vanilla.
Mod authors might add something to the files without actually releasing it, devs better dont do that. For AB, on top of my head i can name Silver wire (coil), some plates which have no use, much of Chrome. Sometimes they take away stuff for whatever reason. On the server game im talking about later, we made electrum plates (a mix of silver and gold iirc) which, since i updated most of the mods, get deleted on startup when loading the server save.

The other problem is, that sometimes items have different names displayed than they are named in the game files (thats also up to every mod author, not the devs)
For instance, Aluminium Ore is Bauxite for the game. If you dont know its internal name, FNEI cant find it. Unless Aluminium Sheets or plates are actually called "Aluminium something" and you backtrack it to the ore.
Thats why people keep suggesting "What is it used for" mod. You hold an item and "place" it in the mod GUI, and it searches the files. You wouln´t need to know internal names.
Most prominent here would be raw Saphirite, Rubyte ore etc... I asked Angel how to delete them (before i knew about mod files) and he told me its something like "angels-ore-1" (up to 6, I fail to remember gas and fissures). I simply wanted to remove some patches with a chat command, before i found a mod for it.


I´d suggest using Helmod. Its more like a calculator, but it has helped me a TON understanding the different reciepe paths.
But be aware that we had problems with it on a server and had to disable it. (6 months back, might have been solved meanwhile) Im not sure if its MP safe.
You can select what you want to get and it suggests aviable (and hidden when option is checked) reciepes and you click it. It goes down all the way to the raw resource, and if you dont chose any amount of desired output, it doesnt spoil the fun of calculating ratios yourself, just guides you through the production line.

I dont think anything what you wanted to get (sooner or later, dont understand what you mean by that ingame factoripedia) is high on a priority list, as the base game is pretty simple compared to AB.
It encourages mod makers to write mods for it, but its not the devs responsibilty to make you understand them easily.
I hope at least my suggestion help you.

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Re: Factorio annotated roadmap - 0.17+

Post by Gergely » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:12 pm

Been a while since last edited.

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