Logistic Storage strategy

[Serenity]

Is it safe to assume that when materials get requested they will come out of Logistic Storage chests before tapping Passive Provider chests?

According to the Wiki, yes:
https://wiki.factorio.com/Logistic_netw ... _of_robots

The new buffer chests are also great for this sort of stuff. They act as a provider and a requester at the same time

[dood]

And I have tentatively been convinced that there might be no need to send other materials back to the mall. Instead I am thinking of placing a central logistics storage array, plus maybe a few smaller storage depots at regular distances (in the hope that frequently deconstructed/constructed materials will be closer when I need them).

Make a build train.

[zOldBulldog]

And I have tentatively been convinced that there might be no need to send other materials back to the mall. Instead I am thinking of placing a central logistics storage array, plus maybe a few smaller storage depots at regular distances (in the hope that frequently deconstructed/constructed materials will be closer when I need them).

Make a build train.

I have one. Not yet automatically loaded, but that is in the plans

[Hedning1390]

The purpose of storage is to handle trash and deconstruction projects, not to store fresh production.
The purpose of actives are to get rid of excess, not for regular production.

Use requesters or buffer chests to pull from passives rather than actives to push to storage.

Build storage at your resupply depot to handle personal trash.
Build temporary storage at the construction site. Remove it when done.

[zOldBulldog]

I ended up building and blueprinting a module with 512 storage chests, 64 buffer chests of frequently used things, and 8 roboports for each 64 chests. It even looks good.

Planted one of these in the center of my base (replacing the mess of storage chests I had all over) and plan to put one of these modules at each outer corner, to support future expansion. Hopefully it will keep materials reasonably close to where I need them.

I also cleaned up the supply list of my (for now still manually loaded) construction train. At some point I'll build auto loading of the train.

[dood]

What are you doing? Why do you need 512 storage chests and why do you put 64 buffer chests all over your base?
You do know that construction bots also have to move to a construction site to place the things in those chests, yes?
You can't "buffer" this so that tactic does nothing if your bots have built something at the other end of the base last and now have to move over the entire map to the new construction site anyway.
Also you have now spread your logistics bots all over the map.
Enjoy waiting for them to come to you the next time you request something.

Don't stretch your logistic network over the entire map.
If you need long distance delivery, you got trains. Simple as that.

[zOldBulldog]

What are you doing? Why do you need 512 storage chests and why do you put 64 buffer chests all over your base?
You do know that construction bots also have to move to a construction site to place the things in those chests, yes?
You can't "buffer" this so that tactic does nothing if your bots have built something at the other end of the base last and now have to move over the entire map to the new construction site anyway.
Also you have now spread your logistics bots all over the map.
Enjoy waiting for them to come to you the next time you request something.

Don't stretch your logistic network over the entire map.
If you need long distance delivery, you got trains. Simple as that.

LOL, you missed some of the details. I have not gone nuts

1) This one 512 storage chest unit is all in the center of the base. It replaces the scattered groups of storage chests I was dumping wherever I was every time I got the message telling me the bots had no place to put stuff. In other words, so far I *consolidated* not scattered. Maybe I don't need all 512 chests, but I'd rather have too many than keep getting those annoying messages. Besides, it is a nice symmetrical shape that looks good on my map. And BTW, as I mentioned in an earlier post I also setup buffer chests that drop back the ores, plates, steel, plastic and other bus things back to the smelters or bus.

2) I said "I plan" to place one such module at each corner. I have not done it yet, mainly to see how this one module works out when I work at the borders of the base. I also blueprinted the 64 storage chest sub-module and the 64-chest buffer sub-module. That way, based on how things work out I have the option to plop a full module, one of the sub-modules, or nothing at all in the 4 corners. We'll see how it works out.

3) I of course plan to use trains for the long distance deliveries. Those far sites will go on separate logistic networks. This logistic network is for the main base (that I am still building) and - at most - its immediate "suburbs".

[Tricorius]

I ended up building and blueprinting a module with 512 storage chests, 64 buffer chests of frequently used things, and 8 roboports for each 64 chests.

:: blink ::

Boy, that’s a *lot* of storage. I typically find myself unhappy if I have more than 9 storage chests.

I think your primary challenge is having your production spread out too much. My “buffer” area is essentially my construction and supply train depot. Everything that isn’t part of the main production chain (not science and rocket) gets built in a common construction area (most people in the forums tend to call these “malls”). All of these products get created and placed directly into buffer chests (with network conditions to only build when below a threshold).

The area also contains a “reclamations” (trash) train. This simply drops everything into active providers which then distribute to the buffer chests via “request” settings. This area also uses construction chains so that recycling of older tier items ensures we aren’t creating huge quantities of low tier items (for instance a few thousand yellow belt get tossed into the yellow belt buffer chest after an early outpost was ripped up). The yellow belt assembler is placing into this buffer chest only if there are less than 200 yellow belts. So now the assembler shuts down as the red belt assembler crunches down the surplus of yellow belt dumped into the system from the “trash train”.

Those 9 storage chests should only be used by the bots if a deconstruction project dumps an overload of items into the system... For instance, yellow belt buffer chest is set to 1000 (with a minimum of 200). There are 200 yellow belt in the buffer chest when a trash train comes in carrying 1500 yellow belts. It dumps those belts into active providers. Bots take 800 of those to the buffer before it is happy and stops requesting. The bots then take 700 to storage. As the 1000 in the buffer chest deplete (player / construction logistics requests, the red belt assembler, etc) bots will pull more out of storage to keep the buffer at 1000. Eventually it will burn through them all and might need to start crafting them again if the buffer runs below 200 before another outpost is deconstructed.

[zOldBulldog]

I ended up building and blueprinting a module with 512 storage chests, 64 buffer chests of frequently used things, and 8 roboports for each 64 chests.

:: blink ::

Boy, that’s a *lot* of storage. I typically find myself unhappy if I have more than 9 storage chests.

I think your primary challenge is having your production spread out too much. My “buffer” area is essentially my construction and supply train depot. Everything that isn’t part of the main production chain (not science and rocket) gets built in a common construction area (most people in the forums tend to call these “malls”). All of these products get created and placed directly into buffer chests (with network conditions to only build when below a threshold).

The area also contains a “reclamations” (trash) train. This simply drops everything into active providers which then distribute to the buffer chests via “request” settings. This area also uses construction chains so that recycling of older tier items ensures we aren’t creating huge quantities of low tier items (for instance a few thousand yellow belt get tossed into the yellow belt buffer chest after an early outpost was ripped up). The yellow belt assembler is placing into this buffer chest only if there are less than 200 yellow belts. So now the assembler shuts down as the red belt assembler crunches down the surplus of yellow belt dumped into the system from the “trash train”.

I really like your approach for recycling low tier products like yellow belts. I think I will change the passive provider chests I have for those to buffer chests. That way they will get used in the next product and save me raw materials.

The fewer things that remain in storage chests the better.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am starting to see nice overflowing belts, my pollution cloud shrinking due to reduced production (plus I have been converting to solar / electric). I also started clearing some buffer space with artillery so that the bugs are being pushed away from the edges of my pollution. Eff 3 modules on miners might be the next big step. Sets me up nicely for my next stage: Nuclear and Rockets.

[Tricorius]

The fewer things that remain in storage chests the better.

This. To be fair I’m teasing a bit with the 9 storage chests (though that is really the number I try to stick to).

But that gets screwed up a bit if you deconstruct several large things in quick succession or have your base bots deconstructing large structures. This can definitely overload storage. The trash train gives a slight buffer with the active provider chests. But I can’t remember if they trigger the annoying “storage full” message if they can’t dump their contents due to no available storage chests.

When I had huge amounts of storage chests I usually found it was due to crap hanging around. Build automation to fix that:

- request combustible old tier junk (wood, wooden chests, wooden power poles, etc) and load them into something to burn (always wanted to try powering a locomotive with wooden power poles)
- request ore to smelters (sounds like you have this)
- request plates, and other first-tier intermediary items into dedicated buffer chests (I have buffer chests for all common hand-craft items—plates, circuits, batteries, etc-lifted off the bus) and I set these up to pull excess out of storage (inserter set to only pull off the bus if there is less than my minimum—I just noticed I tend to use 200/1000 a lot for this)
- find options to recycle “obsolete” stuff into current-tier items (belts, ammo, fuel, etc)

[dood]

I really like your approach for recycling low tier products like yellow belts. I think I will change the passive provider chests I have for those to buffer chests. That way they will get used in the next product and save me raw materials.

The fewer things that remain in storage chests the better.

Were you listening and do you now know that using buffer chests only makes sense if you actually use them as a buffer between assemblers and not as an end-output or are you just that dead-set on forming a bad habit?

[zOldBulldog]

I really like your approach for recycling low tier products like yellow belts. I think I will change the passive provider chests I have for those to buffer chests. That way they will get used in the next product and save me raw materials.

The fewer things that remain in storage chests the better.

Were you listening and do you now know that using buffer chests only makes sense if you actually use them as a buffer between assemblers and not as an end-output or are you just that dead-set on forming a bad habit?

Dude, you need to read carefully, you know what happens when you assume. What I said there is that I will replace the "low tier product" passive provider chests with buffer chests. Those chests ARE between the assemblers.

For example, the yellow belt passive provider is the one used by the assembler making them to put its output, and gets picked by the assembler that makes red belts. For this particular assembly line I can even point you to a picture and blueprint... Nilaus' Logistic production from his Base in a book tutorial. It is on factorio prints.

Isn't this the exact "only use" you just mentioned?

Also, I believe that so far my only other use for buffer chest has been to sort some of my logistic storage (and if memory serves I throttled each chest). EXACTLY as described in the factorio wiki. Is the wiki wrong? If so and it is a bad idea the wiki needs to be fixed... Pronto!!!

You seem convinced that I am doing something wrong with Buffer chests, but I don't really understand what. If I really am developing bad habits I would like to avoid them. Can you please elaborate on exactly what I am doing wrong? Give me some details?

[zOldBulldog]

Guys,

I edited the original post with everything I learned here, so that it can be of use in the future to others starting up on storage.

Please review and correct me if I got something wrong.

[Serenity]

You can also sort/filter storage chests now.

Buffer chests are chests that can act as both a provider and a requester. So with the belts you but it between the assemblers and can then request excess belt and still have bots access to it. Before the buffer chests, using separate requesters and providers just created a loop.

Or if you want bots to be able to give you green circuits you may want to recycle with buffer chests. If you don't need to transport green circuits with bots (to players or other machines), then a requester is fine

Another use is to forward position materials so the bots don't have to travel all the way to the source for it. For example repair packs on walls. I also use it for solid fuel near train stations, so the bots don't have to go to the fuel factory each time. Each train still has requesters, but they can pull from a buffer chest close to the station. In that case you need to check the "request from buffer chest" box on the requester chest.
Or in another game my grenade / cannon shell / flame ammo production was all the way across the base, so I had a buffer chest near my player train station at the mall to quickly resupply.

Direct trash wood somewhere to be burned. I send mine to the steam power plant, but since it only runs as backup during spikes... it does not seem sufficient. I've seen suggestions to use wood for running trains, but for the long run it seems that other fuels are a better choice for trains. So, still need a good idea for how to use wood productively

You can run trains on wood, but other fuels offer better acceleration. I did that before the did the acceleration overhaul. Now I burn mine in furnaces.

When you are beyond the steel furnace stage consider this mod:
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Dark___P ... coalBurner
It allows you to burn wood into coal. You also get a bit of a special oil alongside it that can be turned into solid fuel.

A vanilla way is a large loop of burner inserters and chests, but that's a bit silly.

[Hedning1390]

Guys,
I edited the original post with everything I learned here, so that it can be of use in the future to others starting up on storage.
Please review and correct me if I got something wrong.

Requesters are great for ore. That way you can make sure there is no loops by making the source for your concrete a buffer chest rather than a passive or active provider.

You're not going to produce huge quantities of wood. It can easily be burnt in a steam power plant. A steam engine pretty much burns one wood per second. A steam turbine twice as much.

[zOldBulldog]

You're not going to produce huge quantities of wood. It can easily be burnt in a steam power plant. A steam engine pretty much burns one wood per second. A steam turbine twice as much.

My solar array seems to be very efficient and the Steam plant isn't even turning on. This before even building my first Nuclear plant. That is why I was looking for an alternative use for wood.

Maybe I should replace one of my many electric furnaces with a Steel one fired by wood poles and wood. That should ensure a slow but steady wood burn, and if I ever run out of wood then losing a single furnace's productivity won't be a big deal.

[bobucles]

A good use for wood is to feed burner inserters that are moving wood.

wood mill.jpg (47.21 KiB) Viewed 4201 times

[hale42]

I play 15.40 so i have not worked with the buffer chests.

in my base I have a train wagon dedicated to trash removal (has a slot saved for everything I would use to build my wall or miners), on each train station i have that wagon slot with 6 storage chests on each side ready to accept any trash from deconstructing which is then passed along to my main base and back to my mall where it hits the malls storage and turns off production and gets requested to fill the passive provider chests eventually loaded onto my build train.

I solved the bot issue being spread out with separate small bot networks (one for each of the 4 sides of the wall, for each mining area, mall etc etc)

to prioritize the storage over the provider chests in my mall I have a red network that tells my requester chests whats in the storage and how much is in it (to set requests) that is then fed back into the provider chests at the production and turns off the inserter filling the provider chest from production. as the storage level goes down for that specific item the request gets lower and lower, that avoids requester loops (for the most part) and empties my storage asap.

[dood]

Dude, you need to read carefully, you know what happens when you assume. What I said there is that I will replace the "low tier product" passive provider chests with buffer chests. Those chests ARE between the assemblers.

For example, the yellow belt passive provider is the one used by the assembler making them to put its output, and gets picked by the assembler that makes red belts. For this particular assembly line I can even point you to a picture and blueprint... Nilaus' Logistic production from his Base in a book tutorial. It is on factorio prints.

Isn't this the exact "only use" you just mentioned?

Also, I believe that so far my only other use for buffer chest has been to sort some of my logistic storage (and if memory serves I throttled each chest). EXACTLY as described in the factorio wiki. Is the wiki wrong? If so and it is a bad idea the wiki needs to be fixed... Pronto!!!

You seem convinced that I am doing something wrong with Buffer chests, but I don't really understand what. If I really am developing bad habits I would like to avoid them. Can you please elaborate on exactly what I am doing wrong? Give me some details?

Assuming is all I can do if I get that little to work with.

"Low tier product" is not universal terminology and may as well include intermediates like gears, the wiki doesn't even have the term "throttle" on the page about buffer chests and after that, I don't feel like going on a wild goose chase for that blueprint just because you wouldn't so much as at least tell if it's bot based or not.

Another fact worth knowing would be if you even use "low tier products" like yellow and red belt. Do you?

[vanatteveldt]

Here's how my mall usually ends up, for some visual reference.

I'm in awe of the level of organization and neatness of your mall. Mine usually ends up as the bot equivalent of belt spaghetti (botatouille?)

(edit: and as a bonus for the Dutch speakers: een botjetoe)