Only using Speed modules, no pollution

[Sarxis]

I'm still trying to think through the advantage of using productivity modules at all. I suppose for late game, complex recipes where throughput is heavy?

But I only use speed modules to tweak production/mining in places where things are lagging. I don't use pollution in my games though, and always have abundant resources.

Is there any reason to not go speed only?

[bobucles]

The power of prod modules depends on the value of items it processes. With the rocket silo the value of 4x prod3 is immediately obvious, as it gives 28 free rocket parts reducing your needs to 72. Prod modules in a science lab are also very effective as it gives you bonus research. A chart shows the value of prod3's and how long each takes to pay off:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =141208635

Prod3 is amazing for the first rocket but you don't need to go beyond that to beat the game. The real value reveals itself in the post game. Most items are built from long chains that can each get productivity boosts. Multiplying copper smelting to multiply wire production to multiply green circuits to multiply red circuits to multiply blue circuits to multiply rocket parts is nothing less than a gigantic boost to your resources. Of course the COST of setting that up in the first place is nothing to laugh at. It takes many hours for a post rocket base to fill everything with productivity modules.

Prods don't matter very much in miners since the research topic does the same thing.

The main reason to use Prod3's with speed beacons is that they multiply against each other. A lvl 3 assembler with 4x prod3 modules will produce at a pitiful 40% base speed. That value can be doubled for the cost of two speed3 modules in a beacon. A lot of math was done on this and the general rule is that the cheapest most powerful setup is to flood your prod3 assemblers with beacons. An easy an effective setup is to alternate rows of beacons with assemblers, and err on the side of stuffing in more beacons. The chart describes this as an 8x8 setup, where each beacon boosts 8 assemblers and each assembler is covered by 8 beacons.

TLDR: Prod3 is great. Once you go deep you won't go back.

[Sarxis]

But my point being that if I'm willing to build 'wide' with extra mining and transport, why not just use speed 3 modules with speed beacons? That would speed everything up and I wouldn't be concerned about free production.

Again - energy and pollution aren't a concern.

[Deadlock989]

But my point being that if I'm willing to build 'wide' with extra mining and transport, why not just use speed 3 modules with speed beacons? That would speed everything up and I wouldn't be concerned about free production.

Again - energy and pollution aren't a concern.

This is true for a very resource-rich world with no limits on space or resource "bandwidth".

Otherwise, not, and production modules may be of huge benefit.

YMMV.

[pleegwat]

Again - energy and pollution aren't a concern.

Productivity means less assemblies which is good for UPS.

[bobucles]

It's true that a pure speed build has some advantage over a hybrid build:

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 4xspeed3 assembler + 8x8 build: 700% total speed
4xprod3 assembler + 8x8 build: 440% speed * 1.4 prod => 616% total speed

But the real benefits happen by multiplying resources. For example adding prod3 to your labs will make your whole science base 20% better, without any extra effort. Prod3's in the rocket silo make your ENTIRE rocket assembly chain 40% better and is completely worth it for even a single rocket speed run. If you don't do anything else, fill your silo and labs with productivity modules.

Ultimately it all feeds into higher UPS because free resources mean fewer outposts, fewer smelters and vastly reduced low tech setups. Ultimately this means less things on the field, lower CPU demand and more rockets.

Edit: rocket cost without prod modules

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9,950 Coal
324,722 Crude oil
85,288 Copper ore
101,535 Iron ore
306,444 Water

Rocket cost with anything and everything decked out in Prod3:

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 2,999 Coal
78,942 Crude oil
17,348 Copper ore
33,142 Iron ore

It's a HUGE difference when the 40% bonus hits half a dozen recipes down the line. You can see the cost of the rocket is nearly a third to a quarter of normal!

[Frightning]

It's not even just resource savings: Having prod modules in your production chain means you can make more stuff, especially more high-tier products, from a given sized base. This because you don't need as many machines making the lower tier items to feed their consumers thanks to the free items from productivity bonuses. The speed penalty of prod modules is nicely negated (and then some) by the interaction with speed modules in beacons (beacons, cannot house prod modules, so the only choice here is speed or efficiency, and the latter is not at all worthwhile in a beacon).