Artillery

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Artillery

Postby raspo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:37 am

Artillery is f***** awesome!

That sound is so satisfying.

When I play Factorio I want to automate everything... when it comes to artillery though, I want to be the one to aim, I want to be close to it when it fires, I want to see the hordes of biters come crashing into my wall.

And when I'm on the other side of the base, doing something completely different and I hear that sweet sweet sound in the background, it puts a smile on my face. :twisted:

Thank you devs, that was a fine addition to an already fantastic game!

Keep up the good work.
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Re: Artillery

Postby AcolyteOfRocket » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:23 am

Artillery is indeed nice, but there is one small niggle for me.

The auto-fire range has been set arbitrarily to half max range - why ?

I realise the possible need stop noobs from uncontrollably blowing all their ammo, but I would like to just let the arty clear the largest space possible - the use of the spotter device is just meaningless make-work for me and spoils the effect of automated artillery.

Also stacking levels of 1 for the ammo seems overly mean, why not something like 10 or 20 at least.

So thats two niggles then ... :D
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Re: Artillery

Postby Drury » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:27 am

Feels more like the radius of artillery gets doubled by the use of the device rather than it being halved when the device is not used. I mean it's pretty huge even without.

I'd have preferred for the combat to actually be made interesting instead of just brushing it under the carpet but hey.
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Re: Artillery

Postby Rakshasa » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm

Artillery is an UPS killer when on death worlds.

If only we could get a mode where it could be set to also shoot all the biters, not just the nests, so that it wouldn't leave all those CPU vampires on the field.
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Re: Artillery

Postby AcolyteOfRocket » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:43 pm

Drury wrote:Feels more like the radius of artillery gets doubled by the use of the device rather than it being halved when the device is not used. I mean it's pretty huge even without.

I'd have preferred for the combat to actually be made interesting instead of just brushing it under the carpet but hey.


Factorio is about automation for me, and brushed under the automation carpet is exactly where I like combat to be. But I support the devs making the game fun for other peeps too :D

Rakshasa wrote:Artillery is an UPS killer when on death worlds.

If only we could get a mode where it could be set to also shoot all the biters, not just the nests, so that it wouldn't leave all those CPU vampires on the field.


Sounds rough, I haven't had it that bad yet, but I'm not on a deathworld. You could always use the manula targeter to kill the main strings ofr biters, until, you know, the devs finish letting us automate it properly....
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Re: Artillery

Postby Avezo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Artillery train was something that seemed like something overly hyped since I first heard of it.

Then when I actually started using it, it's awesome! Better than nukes!
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Re: Artillery

Postby The_Mtn_Dew_Master » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:25 am

artillery is amazing when when your driving your train around with three artillery carts and blowing up any alien structures you come across.
Until the bitters come running :lol:
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Re: Artillery

Postby landmine752 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:30 am

I have yet to move on to 0.16 and experience artillery. From what I've seen I'm going to have a hell of a good time with artillery when I do (imagine they could launch nukes).
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Re: Artillery

Postby Drury » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:05 am

landmine752 wrote:I have yet to move on to 0.16 and experience artillery. From what I've seen I'm going to have a hell of a good time with artillery when I do (imagine they could launch nukes).

That's actually the one thing I like about them - they can destroy bases, but the biters still come to say hello so you still need base defenses. If it launched nukes there would be no need for turrets, the arty would just obliterate all biters instantly.
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Re: Artillery

Postby Deadly-Bagel » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:26 am

AcolyteOfRocket wrote:The auto-fire range has been set arbitrarily to half max range - why ?

Yeah I also think this is not so much as that it's been halved for auto firing, more that it's been doubled for manual firing. Most likely this is so when manually aiming at targets just outside of auto range you can have the support of several other cannons as well even if they're further back.
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Re: Artillery

Postby rcp27 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:32 pm

One of the things I found most irritating about biters in the past was trying to expand later in the game and having these huge biter nests to fight through. While nukes solved the problem to an extent, I felt they were just a bit too powerful. Artilery is the right balance, and I absolutely love it. There’s a real logistical challenge to set it up with the non-stacking shells, and the instant mass biter swarm (that nukes just obliterate) means it really isn’t a fire and forget weapon. I’ve just finished setting up a new outpost deep in biter country. Getting the defenses set up, letting rip with the big gun and dealing with the swarms of angry biters was pure joy. No more turning biters off for me.
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Re: Artillery

Postby purdueme91 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm

rcp27 wrote:One of the things I found most irritating about biters in the past was trying to expand later in the game and having these huge biter nests to fight through. While nukes solved the problem to an extent, I felt they were just a bit too powerful. Artilery is the right balance, and I absolutely love it. There’s a real logistical challenge to set it up with the non-stacking shells, and the instant mass biter swarm (that nukes just obliterate) means it really isn’t a fire and forget weapon. I’ve just finished setting up a new outpost deep in biter country. Getting the defenses set up, letting rip with the big gun and dealing with the swarms of angry biters was pure joy. No more turning biters off for me.


I find it weird that the shells stack at 1 in your inventory and the chest but not in the artillery train. What's the max you can load into the artillery train? I was at like 16 last night. Going to need to set up an auto loader when I trek out to destroy some HUGE bases on my railworld.
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Re: Artillery

Postby Avezo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:02 pm

purdueme91 wrote:
rcp27 wrote:One of the things I found most irritating about biters in the past was trying to expand later in the game and having these huge biter nests to fight through. While nukes solved the problem to an extent, I felt they were just a bit too powerful. Artilery is the right balance, and I absolutely love it. There’s a real logistical challenge to set it up with the non-stacking shells, and the instant mass biter swarm (that nukes just obliterate) means it really isn’t a fire and forget weapon. I’ve just finished setting up a new outpost deep in biter country. Getting the defenses set up, letting rip with the big gun and dealing with the swarms of angry biters was pure joy. No more turning biters off for me.


I find it weird that the shells stack at 1 in your inventory and the chest but not in the artillery train. What's the max you can load into the artillery train? I was at like 16 last night. Going to need to set up an auto loader when I trek out to destroy some HUGE bases on my railworld.


100 iirc. Which makes storing them anywhere but in the artillery train or turrent a waste of space.
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Re: Artillery

Postby TheTom » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:12 pm

Avezo wrote:
purdueme91 wrote:
rcp27 wrote:One of the things I found most irritating about biters in the past was trying to expand later in the game and having these huge biter nests to fight through. While nukes solved the problem to an extent, I felt they were just a bit too powerful. Artilery is the right balance, and I absolutely love it. There’s a real logistical challenge to set it up with the non-stacking shells, and the instant mass biter swarm (that nukes just obliterate) means it really isn’t a fire and forget weapon. I’ve just finished setting up a new outpost deep in biter country. Getting the defenses set up, letting rip with the big gun and dealing with the swarms of angry biters was pure joy. No more turning biters off for me.


I find it weird that the shells stack at 1 in your inventory and the chest but not in the artillery train. What's the max you can load into the artillery train? I was at like 16 last night. Going to need to set up an auto loader when I trek out to destroy some HUGE bases on my railworld.


100 iirc. Which makes storing them anywhere but in the artillery train or turrent a waste of space.


And 100 is a lot of shots on top. Would be nicer to make stacks of X (1, 5, 10 - not more) and then have max. 4 times in the artillery. So that you actually do need to reload ;)
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Re: Artillery

Postby Cleany » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:35 pm

It's brilliant. I have just installed some, watching it is fantastic, and it clears annoying biters out of the way so beautifully.
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Re: Artillery

Postby Kryptos » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:26 am

Drury wrote:Feels more like the radius of artillery gets doubled by the use of the device rather than it being halved when the device is not used. I mean it's pretty huge even without.

I'd have preferred for the combat to actually be made interesting instead of just brushing it under the carpet but hey.


The way I use artillery on my deathworld is directly related to this. I build rails out from the wall until I'm close to where needs clearing, and I set up a little train station with a laser ring. Then I grab my combat shotty, three stacks of ammo, and run into the biters. I've dialed in the shell travel time pretty well, so I try to use it as fire support. Maybe target a few shots into a base for a clear path to run through, as well as priority targets like big worms. Most of the time, however, I use it to kill biter swarms, much like I used to use nukes (when you have 200+ behemoths chasing you). I find that if I aim roughly 1 behemoth-length in front of my character, when the artillery is at about 75% max range, then the shells will land roughly at the range of the combat shotgun behind me, using six exoskeletons. Right where the biters start swarming, instead of the one or two that lead the pack.
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Re: Artillery

Postby Ringkeeper » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:00 pm

Drury wrote:
landmine752 wrote:I have yet to move on to 0.16 and experience artillery. From what I've seen I'm going to have a hell of a good time with artillery when I do (imagine they could launch nukes).

That's actually the one thing I like about them - they can destroy bases, but the biters still come to say hello so you still need base defenses. If it launched nukes there would be no need for turrets, the arty would just obliterate all biters instantly.


Depends how high your range tech is. I had it already with range tech 1 that i shot bases manually , bitters came running, had to go through a forest and just stopped walking and went back.... pathfinding is still problematic :D
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Re: Artillery

Postby bobucles » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:32 pm

Some of the fault with biter pathing is that artillery long range is just SO long. Improving a pathing algorithm is one thing, but there's only so much you can do when biters have to path over 9000 tiles to their target. Eventually you reach a point where the CPU demand crushes the computer.

I do think that artillery research should have different values for boosting long and short range. The short range boost can stay at 30% per tech, but the long range boost should be closer to 15-20%. This would equate to a range bonus of +67 for automatic and +84-112 for manual (the current long range bonus is +168). That way the pathing demand is cut down from an extreme distance to merely a long distance.

Ultimately the only way to eliminate the CPU demand is to eliminate the need for long range pathing all together. Sadly there aren't many ways to do this.

Artillery comes at a VERY late game tier where biters have nearly maxed out their evolution. Take advantage of this to create a high tech countermeasure for the biters. For example a burrowing type of biter can tunnel through terrain without any need for pathing CPU. This also increases the biter threat by letting them tunnel directly into your guns and go om nom nom. Not only does it cave the CPU, it creates an exciting new end game dilemma for players to deal with. Player countermeasures might include using a hit+run tactic with their trains constantly on the move to evade the burrowing counter. They might build land mines to intercept the tunnels. They might build a lot of guns and just hope for the best. Turrets have an initial lag so maybe they can't save your guns in time. Oops. ;)
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Re: Artillery

Postby nuhll » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:47 pm

AcolyteOfRocket wrote:Artillery is indeed nice, but there is one small niggle for me.

The auto-fire range has been set arbitrarily to half max range - why ?

I realise the possible need stop noobs from uncontrollably blowing all their ammo, but I would like to just let the arty clear the largest space possible - the use of the spotter device is just meaningless make-work for me and spoils the effect of automated artillery.

Also stacking levels of 1 for the ammo seems overly mean, why not something like 10 or 20 at least.

So thats two niggles then ... :D

theres a mod which auto assigns enemys... :)
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Re: Artillery

Postby Caine » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:48 pm

I like how the OP signed up just to post how awesome artillery is. No second post or anything.
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