Cliffs :(

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Cliffs :(

Postby Avezo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:05 am

I love cliffs so much, not only they add so much to the game, they remind me of long gone old happy days of C&C games and everything related to them...

And yet when it comes down to actual gameplay of Factorio, I just have no choice but to blow them away. It makes me feel so sad...

Please discuss.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby quadrox » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:38 am

Avezo wrote:I love cliffs so much, not only they add so much to the game, they remind me of long gone old happy days of C&C games and everything related to them...

And yet when it comes down to actual gameplay of Factorio, I just have no choice but to blow them away. It makes me feel so sad...

Please discuss.


Cliffs are pretty and cool, no doubt about it, but I just don't think they belong in factorio.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby 5thHorseman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:52 am

I enjoyed pathing trains around them but as soon as I got the explosives they stopped being an issue.

They seem easier to deal with than water.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby aober93 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:54 am

They are the new Water. So they kinda need to be removed once in a while.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Rakshasa » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:58 am

Seems they are way too cheap/easy to remove, just like water.

They should add an option to make terrain modification cheap (as now), very expensive, or disabled. And depth should impact how much you need to fill in a tile.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby garath » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:05 pm

I first encountered a tiny cliff that looked just like normal terrain but that my car couldn’t run over. This was incredibly frustrating until I realized this was actually a single grid sized cliff!! I ended up halting play on that game and started a new game with cliffs disabled. I don’t think they add enough to the game versus the hassle.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Tinyboss » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:31 pm

quadrox wrote:Cliffs are pretty and cool, no doubt about it, but I just don't think they belong in factorio.


I agree. They're the first Factorio feature that is actually less than it appears to be. The fake height just rubs me the wrong way, when the defining feature (IMO) of Factorio is that everything is real, simulated constantly at the finest level of detail.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Koub » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:36 pm

People are never happy with what they have. Cliffs have been on the "we want it" list for literally years, and now they are there, people don't want them any more.
You can't please everybody at the same time I guess.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby tk0421 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:15 pm

Koub wrote:People are never happy with what they have. Cliffs have been on the "we want it" list for literally years, and now they are there, people don't want them any more.
You can't please everybody at the same time I guess.


I would love actual cliffs. and the things that come with it, like ramps bridges and tunnels.

but the way they are implemented are just a simple barrier, and too easy to manipulate as an alien diverter.

i have turned them off in generation options.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Matthias_Wlkp » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:27 pm

I love the cliffs. They add variety - similar to water, but in a different way.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby milo christiansen » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:07 pm

Matthias_Wlkp wrote:I love the cliffs. They add variety - similar to water, but in a different way.

+1
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Vxsote » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:22 pm

To me, sometimes I think the placement of cliffs is a little strange. I know that would be much more useful if I showed pictures of actual cases that bug me, and perhaps I will do that as a followup. the fake height also does seem a bit... weird.

But for what cliffs are, I think they work. They add a little bit of variety, an occasional obstacle, and sometimes a helpful funnel for biters. Perhaps a little bit of tweaking is in order, but I wouldn't go crazy.

Unless you WANT to go crazy, and make Factorio a fully 3D game, with mountains, canyons, rivers, lakes, etc. Then we could have the bridges and tunnels that tk0421 mentioned. Trains could require more power to climb gradients, and braking power to control speed coming down. And derail from going around a curve too fast. Water could flow and be a limited resource. Perhaps the camera position could be changed. Think a little more like Cities: Skylines. Everything underground would need to be deconflicted using actual z-levels (the belt-braid-is-evil crowd will rejoice) instead of magic. And a million other things.

But that game would not be Factorio. It might be a really good Factorio 2.0. (Or it might not.) I can't see into the developers' minds to read their intent, but I think the current implementation of cliffs fits the design of the game well.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby AcolyteOfRocket » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:27 am

I am playing a game with cliffs-no-demolish, and its ok, I will finish the game. But I suspect my next game will be without cliffs as as you say, they are ultimately a pain.

I certainly don't see the need for explosive, which also is unrealistic for me as cliffs are also suppose to represent elevation changes which explosives should not fix.

They are a nice addition to the game overall, but I will only use them on a niche basis I suspect.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby 5thHorseman » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:46 am

AcolyteOfRocket wrote:I certainly don't see the need for explosive, which also is unrealistic for me as cliffs are also suppose to represent elevation changes which explosives should not fix.


The idea isn't that they remove the elevation change, but smooth it out so it's more akin to the ground you used to have to walk around.

I agree though that it's just taking advantage of the fact that there is no "real" elevation change and packing that into a special (and OP) grenade.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Matthias_Wlkp » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:05 pm

There could be an achievement for completing the game without blowing up any cliffs...

I can see why some people building megabases hate them. If there was a way for bots to blow them up...
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Avezo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 pm

I would love if it was possible to 'build' cliffs. I have to blow almost all of them because they're in the way too much, but once I adapt terrain, I wouldn't mind if there were more of them in 'right' places. I know devs would say the same as about diggable water - won't be implemented becuase it creates inpenetrable wall for biters.

I plan getting some terraforming mod for that anyway.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Sifu » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:26 pm

That's funny because for me it actually enhanced the gameplay a lot. Planning around cliffs makes it much more challenging than the typical and dumb "plop blueprints and win".

I now have to plan ahead and fit as much stuff as I can between the cliffs and the water. Yet, it is impossible to build a 1k+spm base with high cliffs/high water, but it's fun as hell.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Triaxx2 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:34 pm

I love cliffs, but I wish we didn't have Cliff Explosives. Deal with it, or go around it, problem solved. But again, some people are unpleasable.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Yinan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:33 am

Koub wrote:People are never happy with what they have. Cliffs have been on the "we want it" list for literally years, and now they are there, people don't want them any more.
You can't please everybody at the same time I guess.

Actually, you can. And the Devs did. Simply by adding an option to not play with Cliffs. Now you have the best of both worlds.

I for one hate cliffs so I turn them of in the options. And that's fantastic. You people who like cliffs can play with them, while I, who hates those cliffs, can play without them and we can all be happy.
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Re: Cliffs :(

Postby Elok » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:23 pm

Yinan wrote:
Koub wrote:People are never happy with what they have. Cliffs have been on the "we want it" list for literally years, and now they are there, people don't want them any more.
You can't please everybody at the same time I guess.

Actually, you can. And the Devs did. Simply by adding an option to not play with Cliffs. Now you have the best of both worlds.

I for one hate cliffs so I turn them of in the options. And that's fantastic. You people who like cliffs can play with them, while I, who hates those cliffs, can play without them and we can all be happy.


^ This exactly! ^

The best course of action if to give the "choice" to the player. Don't like cliff and/or water blocking your design? Start a new game and turn them off!
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