Factorio Forums

the new look isnt even concrete any more, its cobblestone.

this should be what paving with stone bricks looks like, and the original concrete should be restored.

Maybe this will finally make people stop replacing the whole world with concrete, which honestly has always looked horrible, and start building roads instead.

Playing 0.16 i always think the people lay bricks instead of concrete (which induces anger). While the new concrete graphic makes for nice screenshots of abandoned industrial areas it is not suitable for a factory floor in Factorio. Concrete is poured in slabs which are smooth and tiled (so they break at the tile seam and not in the slab itself).
Covering the factory in concrete was something that i liked and disliked at the same time.
It is the only way to get rid of decoratives so you have less clutter to visually process but many people just overdid it.

I think it is already hard enough to decode the hellish contraptions some people throw together, we don't need the added difficulty of watching at horrible graphic interference.

While matching the theme of Factorio the current concrete graphic is just not able to fill the role it used to fill: Reduce clutter, give a nice constant light background for a good contrast to the buildings.

Some years back i designed a user interface using the companys colors. I had to redo the coloring because the resulting combination put way too much strain on the users eyes while working with it. BTW: The same applies to the downtoned colors of the minimap. It fits into the Factorio theme but it is really hard to read.

It's a nice design but it just doesn't work. Please reconsider.

Zeblote wrote:Maybe this will finally make people stop replacing the whole world with concrete, which honestly has always looked horrible, and start building roads instead.

Finally? Have you been sweating about how much you disapprove of the way other people design their factories?

You can see from the poll results that most people are happy to wish that people have a choice.

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I don't hate it as much as I thought I would. Mainly because the "bricks" are smaller than I imagined. The preview images are all very zoomed in, but in the game it doesn't look quite as rough since the detail is smaller. None the less, I still don't like it. And despite the technical improvements, I consider it a step backwards overall.

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If anyone wants to, they can download the replacement textures I created - see this topic: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=55581&p=326914#p326914

sicklag wrote:BTW you should write POLL in the subject of the threat. Everyone is reading the subject first...no poll in name, no people they will poll...

Ok good idea

So I installed an old concrete mod - great I can see my factory properly again. The concrete doesn't work properly with water, but it still looks better than before (where it couldn't come within a few tiles of water).

But all my achievements reset. Nearly 300 hours into the map and achievements gone. This is why I didn't want to install mods. Maybe on another run through but not this one.

I made this into a suggestion, and linked this and another thread. Maybe there is hope!

However I will hold off on my factory for a couple of weeks in hope of getting a non-achievement ruining solution.

The thing is, with the incredible optimisations, my factory is really great, and there is a lot I want to do to complete my plan.

If you have a saved game from before you installed the mods, then you should be able to uninstall the mods, and load that save game. Since it's never been loaded with mods, it's still an unmodded game. (Achievements are tracked independently between modded and unmodded games, so when you installed a mod, you would have got a load of achievements, since the game was now looking at your list of modded achievements).

Zavian wrote:If you have a saved game from before you installed the mods, then you should be able to uninstall the mods, and load that save game. Since it's never been loaded with mods, it's still an unmodded game. (Achievements are tracked independently between modded and unmodded games, so when you installed a mod, you would have got a load of achievements, since the game was now looking at your list of modded achievements).

Thank you. This is what I have now done and am using the replacement textures viewtopic.php?f=15&t=55581&p=326914#p326914

I think people are being too melodramatic about it tbh. Yes, in huge slabs, concrete has looked better. I only used it for roads and edges, and it looks MUCH better now.

I think theres room for improvement, the suggestion to make a third surface type which is just a flat plane could work. It could even be made a requirement for all tier2 and up buildings, giving an extra sense of progression through the tech tree.

But to call the game broken, unplayable, etc... That goes way too far.

Xtrafresh wrote:I think people are being too melodramatic about it tbh. Yes, in huge slabs, concrete has looked better. I only used it for roads and edges, and it looks MUCH better now.

I think theres room for improvement, the suggestion to make a third surface type which is just a flat plane could work. It could even be made a requirement for all tier2 and up buildings, giving an extra sense of progression through the tech tree.

But to call the game broken, unplayable, etc... That goes way too far.

True enough. Its not that bad, but it does feel extremely wrong, and you lose out on both an actual concrete texture (getting a second brick texture) and you lose out on the grid (using the debug-grid damages immersion)

Given I always use mods anyway, I just plan to use the mod that reverts the behavior.

Honestly, the new concrete graphic would make for a great brick texture, but it isn't smooth like any concrete I would want to drive on.

Xtrafresh wrote:I think people are being too melodramatic about it tbh. Yes, in huge slabs, concrete has looked better. I only used it for roads and edges, and it looks MUCH better now.

I think theres room for improvement, the suggestion to make a third surface type which is just a flat plane could work. It could even be made a requirement for all tier2 and up buildings, giving an extra sense of progression through the tech tree.

But to call the game broken, unplayable, etc... That goes way too far.

I made a base which I split into grids and I used the old concrete as a background to those grids because it gave a good contrast to the factory. Now this factory, and the areas covered in concrete are headache inducing, and therefore unplayable.

You may not understand, your factory may be different, but I am telling you that with the current concrete without alteration it is unplayable for me. If you want to imagine that I am exaggerating for some reason that is your choice, but you could also imagine how it would feel if you couldn't play your factory after putting 270 hours into it, and after posting a reasonable question for discussion and poll, someone called that "melodramatic".

Anyhow I can play it now because someone made some replacement textures and my achievements won't be screwed up.

Now it is the business of the devs, who we all agree are incredible and have made a fantastic game, to assess whether or not they believe that giving an option for a plain floor is worthwhile. And they can have a look at this and other discussions, and use other factors to decide.

I simply don't see the profit or motivation in questioning others requests for, and discussions about, possible differences to a game that had been in alpha for years and a lot of players have put hundreds of hours into. Do you?

In fact, given that the game is in alpha and we have all paid and opted in so that we can take part in the development of it, isn't it rather pointless to suggest that there is some problem with reasonable discussion about the games features?

Cleany wrote:You may not understand, your factory may be different, but I am telling you that with the current concrete without alteration it is unplayable for me. If you want to imagine that I am exaggerating for some reason that is your choice, but you could also imagine how it would feel if you couldn't play your factory after putting 270 hours into it, and after posting a reasonable question for discussion and poll, someone called that "melodramatic".

Mate, I understand. My own 0.15 base has also been contaminated because of mapgen changes, forcing me to either restart or jump through some pretty crazy hoops. I WISH that my fix would be as easy as yours. The difference is, I acknowledge that it is my own specific base that's broken. We're playing a game in Beta. Wube is on record in saying that they'd rather break existing player's bases than present a compromised product to 1.0 customers.

There's several fixes available to both of us:
1) keep playing 0.15
2) use mods, hacks and bodges to get the game to behave the way we want. I think Factorio could be in the running for most accommodating game ever when it comes to shenanigans like that.
3) Simply start a new base.

Now, we are free to have problems with all of those options, but they are our won problems, for us to solve and deal with. Wube doesn't owe us the solution to any of it.

I simply don't see the profit or motivation in questioning others requests for, and discussions about, possible differences to a game that had been in alpha for years and a lot of players have put hundreds of hours into. Do you?

In fact, given that the game is in alpha and we have all paid and opted in so that we can take part in the development of it, isn't it rather pointless to suggest that <insert straw man here>

Reasonable discussion, sure. And I already said in my first post that there's room for a new, third flooring type that's flat and boring like you suggested. But that's not the tone of this thread, nor of the poll. You force people who don't see this as an issue to vote for a very strongly worded option, and make the other two sound much more reasonable. Had you framed the words differently, I would not have chosen "melodramatic".

Yes, our feedback is read and used and appreciated by Wube, which is pretty fucking awesome if you ask me. Can't really get that from UbiSoft :p
But we have a responsibility to give them useful feedback that will steer towards a better 1.0, not fix requests that will allow beta testers to keep playing between versions as if it's a finished game. To be honest, I'm quite surprised to see my 0.15 base load in 0.16 at all.

TL;DR
I don't think 'flat concrete' is an unreasonable request, but I do think this thread is written out of unrealistic expectations.

Xtrafresh wrote:

Cleany wrote:You may not understand, your factory may be different, but I am telling you that with the current concrete without alteration it is unplayable for me. If you want to imagine that I am exaggerating for some reason that is your choice, but you could also imagine how it would feel if you couldn't play your factory after putting 270 hours into it, and after posting a reasonable question for discussion and poll, someone called that "melodramatic".

Mate, I understand. My own 0.15 base has also been contaminated because of mapgen changes, forcing me to either restart or jump through some pretty crazy hoops. I WISH that my fix would be as easy as yours. The difference is, I acknowledge that it is my own specific base that's broken. We're playing a game in Beta. Wube is on record in saying that they'd rather break existing player's bases than present a compromised product to 1.0 customers.

There's several fixes available to both of us:
1) keep playing 0.15
2) use mods, hacks and bodges to get the game to behave the way we want. I think Factorio could be in the running for most accommodating game ever when it comes to shenanigans like that.
3) Simply start a new base.

Now, we are free to have problems with all of those options, but they are our won problems, for us to solve and deal with. Wube doesn't owe us the solution to any of it.

You seem to be under the impression that I am trying to force wube to make changes to suit my own map. I have no choice, like you, to accommodate the changes. You give the impression that you think there is no grey area between, one the one hand, complaining vehemently to the devs saying that my map is broken and it is their responsibility to attend to my needs, and, on the other hand, simply not posting on the forum. Read what I said - my map is unplayable in base 0.16, I didn't cry or blame anyone, I simply said that this is the case and perhaps there should be an option to cater to people, like me, who would like a plain style floor back.

Xtrafresh wrote:

I simply don't see the profit or motivation in questioning others requests for, and discussions about, possible differences to a game that had been in alpha for years and a lot of players have put hundreds of hours into. Do you?

In fact, given that the game is in alpha and we have all paid and opted in so that we can take part in the development of it, isn't it rather pointless to suggest that <insert straw man here>

You do know that replacing what I said with the term "straw man" doesn't constitute a coherent argument? This isn't "internet argument course year one second term".

Xtrafresh wrote:

I simply don't see the profit or motivation in questioning others requests for, and discussions about, possible differences to a game that had been in alpha for years and a lot of players have put hundreds of hours into. Do you?

In fact, given that the game is in alpha and we have all paid and opted in so that we can take part in the development of it, isn't it rather pointless to suggest that <insert straw man here>

Reasonable discussion, sure. And I already said in my first post that there's room for a new, third flooring type that's flat and boring like you suggested. But that's not the tone of this thread, nor of the poll. You force people who don't see this as an issue to vote for a very strongly worded option, and make the other two sound much more reasonable. Had you framed the words differently, I would not have chosen "melodramatic".

Force? Is this where I replace what you said with the term "straw man"? Why don't you rephrase my questions and tell me how I should have posted them?

Xtrafresh wrote:Yes, our feedback is read and used and appreciated by Wube, which is pretty fucking awesome if you ask me. Can't really get that from UbiSoft :p
But we have a responsibility to give them useful feedback that will steer towards a better 1.0, not fix requests that will allow beta testers to keep playing between versions as if it's a finished game. To be honest, I'm quite surprised to see my 0.15 base load in 0.16 at all.

TL;DR
I don't think 'flat concrete' is an unreasonable request, but I do think this thread is written out of unrealistic expectations.

Seeing as I wrote the thing, why don't I tell you what my expectations are:

• That there are many players who, given that concrete was the only plain alternative to a base background other than terrain, and this seemed its primary (if only) purpose, had covered their base in it like I did, and now found looking at it painful.
  That I could test my assumptions using a poll.
  That discussion on the matter might be helpful.
  That the majority of the player base is more interested in organisation (old concrete) rather than prettying up (new concrete) areas of their base, given the nature of the game.
  That the forum is here to discuss the features of the game.
  That people wouldn't actively try to shout down discussion regarding updates.

The specific thing regarding the new concrete issue is that not rectifying it will leave the game with no plain floor option. This is a big enough issue to make a poll in my opinion, and to submit a post in the "ideas and suggestions" section.

Do you see my post as a subtle attempt to try to force the devs into changing something to suit my own selfish needs? If so, why not give them some credit.

Whatever you think, if the devs don't want this discussion or think it inappropriate they, or the moderators will intervene. In the mean time I stand by my position that this discussion is helpful, and the issue is important enough for it to continue, and the matter to be brought to the attention of the devs.

But most importantly of all, as I clearly stated in the original post, this is their game and their decision and I will never argue with that. This game is incredible and the whole alpha process is second to none. Honestly I think I am helping (because I really do think the game needs a plain background for the many (if not even the majority of) players who like things to be organised. Obviously you don't, but I think it is rather rude to interrupt and try to stymie a dialogue which, if you don't think there is an issue, isn't any of your business.

This is rapidly deteriorating into a nitpicky internet argument, and i'll cease and desist on that front. I apologize for my part in that.

On topic: we agree it would be nice to have a "flat floor" option, but disagree on the importance of it. Simple enough.

This new concret floor can be called everithing in this universe but not concrete floor....

That I could test my assumptions using a poll.

But you can't. This type of poll will always suffer from some type of selection bias. Most players will never visit the forum. Of those how do visit the forums, most won't read this thread, and won't be bothered to vote. Most of the players who do vote, and most of the players who do comment on threads like these are players who are annoyed by the changes. Witness the fact that this thread has 1400 views and only 116 votes. You have no way of determining how many players like the change, or how many players don't care, because both of those groups aren't even likely to vote or even read the thread.