0.16 Map generation Feedback

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Deadlock989
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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Deadlock989 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:00 pm

This is a preview of a map with oil generation set to "very low" and "very small". Clearly broken. In general I quite like the new terrain but the resource generation is way off. It's like there is some kind of scaling factor with distance from the start area which is tuned to overkill.
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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Kewlhotrod » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:44 pm

roman566 wrote: That's a cool map, can you share 0.15 map seed?
I think it was a 0.12 map

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by roman566 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:04 pm

Kewlhotrod wrote: I think it was a 0.12 map
Thank you.

Shame it didn't work. I tested it on every final version since 0.11, only in 0.15 the seed was seen as valid, but it still created a completely different map :(

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by fharding » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:52 am

Please fix the map generation. I tried to generate a map for a new world for several hours before I gave up.
I like large bodies of water.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by smHatter » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:52 am

Nazair wrote:So I guess until some fix/change the best way to get proper map is to generate it with 0.15 and then play in 0.16 ;x
Does that work ok? Once you progress out beyond the initial area doesn't it just start generating a 0.16 map?

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Dixi » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:37 pm

If dev's would took a new year break, it's fully understandable, but since they keeping to do bug fixes and new releases, could we have a word about map problems?
When will it be fixed, and which way?

A lot of players missing 0.15 type maps with bigger water areas! And questionable resource generation sometimes looks bugged.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Zavian » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:26 pm

Have a little patience. Only some of the devs seem to be around. (Some probably _are_ on holiday). At least one of the existing map generation bugs is assigned to TOGos who is one of the devs who doesn't seem to be around. (He also wrote the cliff part of https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-219, so he seems to be doing the map generation stuff).

This probably isn't the type of issue where there is a clear "this bit of the code is broken, let me just fix it". The code is probably working as intended, just the result isn't something that everybody is happy with. This isn't a game breaking bug (it doesn't prevent you from playing, if you are that unhappy about the map generation, you can always generate a map with 0.15, use console commands to explore 10k chunks in every direction, then play that map in 0.16). It almost certainly isn't something where they can just change a few lines of code, and magically get a fixed version that everybody is happy with. This is the sort of problem where they may well want to think about what they are going to change and how they are going to rework map generation for a couple of weeks or even a couple of months before making changes. And I don't expect them to devote that amount of time to something that isn't game breaking over the holidays. At least until they have had a chance to think about it, I don't see how they could meaningfully answer "When will it be fixed, and which way?"

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Dixi » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Since 0.16 map generator has some unsolved problems, from part of player community, and we asks, is it hard to have an option "use 0.15" map generation"?
I do not think it's really problematic to have this option, while dev's will think what and how needed to be fixed/reworked in a new map generation.

For sample, similar looking question, about fuel wagon, got addressed quite fast.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by pleegwat » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:13 pm

Did moddable map generation parameters make it into 0.16?

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Zavian » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:45 am

pleegwat wrote:Did moddable map generation parameters make it into 0.16?
See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56033

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by manpapper » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:09 pm

And so will this noise parameter will be implemented in 0.16 (vanilla)?
Because for now it's still in Ideas and Suggestions and Klonan neither confirm nor denied this.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Dixi » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:00 pm

One of disadvantages of 0.16 map generator was absence of big islands, rivers, big lakes.
Looking on other topic - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55596, at last someone found a seed [3974660741 + water normal/very big] to create very nice looking island, quite big one. So far I have bad luck with rich resource generation on it.
Even if I set iron/copper to very high/very big/very good, around that island, I see not so many iron spots of about 1-2M size, with exception of just one very big starting iron deposit of 14M. Bad luck? Or strange behavior of new map generator? I expected bigger resource deposits on maximal settings.
Also that map has stone deposits problems - stone appear only on some settings, other way it does not exist. :-(

For comparison, at 0.15 map, with near max resource settings, I see, on peninsula, on an area that can be covered with about 9 radars:
Iron: 1.9+3.0+4.0+8.3+2.0+5.9+9.0+1.3+2.2+8.5+2.1 ~= 50+M Iron (I did not counted small deposits below 1M size)
Copper: 3.8+3.3+1.7+1.4+1.6+4.4+3.9+1.3+11 ~= 33M Copper (mind 2 more nearby deposits 12M+6.6M size, a bit south into mainland).
Same resource richness settings on a new map gives much less deposit size, and they appear on a map quite distant.

Update, a day later.

As I found from recent FFF post, if one moves quite a distance from beginning area, he will see much richer deposits of ores. 40-50M deposits are normal as I found, and sometimes you can find a deposit over 100M. Just mind they are more dense, not much bigger area, so those deposits will last for a while, but to gain good ore output you still need to find bigger one, or use several.
But such move, in presence of biters, might be a challenging task to organize.

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Better visibility for ore patches an the map.

Post by gsezz » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:03 am

I love the look of the map since 0.16. But sometimes it's realy hard so see iron and espacily stone patches on grayish ground. I am currently playing a railworld map, and yersterday I drove around for over half an hour searching for stone, until I noticed a giant patch directly next to my base. Now searching depositis includes moving the mouse all over the map to highlight patches you overlook before. This isn't nice gameplay.

I suggest a map overlay that highlights all patches, just like hovering the mouse over them, but all at once.
Maybe only for the radar covered Area. That wouldn't make exploring too easy, but take the annoyence from finding patches on allready explored and controlled ground.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Koub » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:08 am

[Koub] Merged topic into the 0.16 map generation feedback topic.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Better visibility for ore patches an the map.

Post by 5thHorseman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:52 am

gsezz wrote:I suggest a map overlay that highlights all patches, just like hovering the mouse over them, but all at once.
Maybe only for the radar covered Area. That wouldn't make exploring too easy, but take the annoyence from finding patches on allready explored and controlled ground.
I second this, but it should be on all the time (not just in Radar areas. I agree you should be able to turn it off/on). Ability to notice things should only be a difficulty factor in horror games and shooters.
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Re: Better visibility for ore patches an the map.

Post by Matthias_Wlkp » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:48 pm

gsezz wrote:I suggest a map overlay that highlights all patches, just like hovering the mouse over them, but all at once.
Maybe only for the radar covered Area. That wouldn't make exploring too easy, but take the annoyence from finding patches on allready explored and controlled ground.
+1

It's really hard to see stone patches sometimes, or confuse coal with dark green land.

Just yesterday I actually did find a fairly big peninsula, as well as an island. However those were not in large bodies of water, but created by snake'y lakes. I went on an exploring run and was really surprised how far I had to go to close the circle...

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by manpapper » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:12 am

Now i use the artillery to reveal the map...
Because the some resources are hard to find and i don't really enjoy exploring.

Maybe more powerfull radars because imo having to use so many of them to find something usefull is somewhat a pain.

Do someone have some ideas?
Am i the only one who found that it's shouldn't be so hard to find the resource you need?

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Olix » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:46 am

I find the 0.16 map generation terribly disappointing. The snake-oceans are very ugly.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by PacifyerGrey » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:12 am

I have generated a lot of maps and played some already so I have my opinion on this as well.
Map gen
I like to play with much water. 0.16 is very specific on this matter - it creates something I would call swamps - a lot of small lakes or even less sized water fragments. Also there is some inconsistency about water settings. They start behaving the way I like it a bit only on mostly maximum water settings when there are actual "rivers" and lakes happening. Until then it is just a "noise".
I would say the noise has too high frequency/density so that game really lacks some bigger scale noise to make "seas" or even "oceans" possible.

And only lazy one did not mention cliffs being really inconsistent. Out of 50 maps on normal settings I had only one with some cliffs. It seams that high water settings are affecting cliff generator kinda suppressing it. Not to mention they are mostly generated only in start area.
Resource gen
This one is a real disaster this patch. On high water settings it can put rich resources in a start area (which still lacks some resource most of times) and then make a huge gap around without anything significant or make a tiny starter patch amd just spam large ones all around

Also there is a really big problem with taking water into account. It is just too often that the majority of a patch is generated under the sea. And this does not seam to be compensated by other patches being richer or something to compensate for the loss.

On my latest map I had a real trouble with Oil. I have explored like REALLY far in all directions and found only 2 oil patches 4 wells each which is just rediculous for Railworld rich settings (low frequency) and they both were on the edge of a lake which obviously covered their main part.

So overall I do find new map generator interesting and I really do like the continuous land web but it seams it should have much bigger scale.
And resource gen is just aweful yes.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by doublewohli » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:43 pm

For me the bad map gen is also a gamebreaking part. I like large water bodies as well. But as already stated are the snakey lakes and ravines very disappointing. I could live with this, but the bad ressource gen in 0.16 seals the deal. I previewed countless new maps, but all had too many flaws to let me start a game in one..

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