0.16 Map generation Feedback

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Avezo
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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Avezo » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:52 pm

I wish map generator had additional option - delete ore patches below certain amount.

I hurts my OCB to built over ore patches, but mining those tiny pieces still takes time.
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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by psihius » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:09 am

Also played around with resource gen - to be honest, generating something more scarce than default "railworld" is not just hard, but it most always ends up lacking some of the resources in the starting area (even very big one) - usually stone, most likely coal and makes huge patches just stones throw away.
Also, it heavily discriminates iron and coal - I have to re-roll the map usually 5-6 times until I find the seed that has iron and coal both present in starting area.

If you put "very low", "very big" and "very good" - those patches should be big, but very infrequent. Even if you do "very low", "normal" and "very good" - still you end up with patches so close and their resource amounts scale so fast, that railworld is not what comes to mind.

Maybe we need a scale factor or something like that. But right now resources are just too frequent on almost any settings.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by BossmanSlim » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:17 pm

Oil needs a guarantee of being close to the starting location. Other than that, I typically don't see many issues.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Dry Hairy Tree » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:47 pm

I just turned off biters, turned water to very low frequency and big, and took a (modded) hours drive around a newly generated map to have a look.

And then I quit, cos it was rubbish. I found myself driving round a maze of endless peninsulas surrounded by impassable water bodies. The water was so impassable I failed to gain the distance required to find patches of ore in triple figures as I used to.

It must be damn tricky getting this right though. We obviously want random, but there is also required enough predictability we don't waste time like my last hour's drive and many previous posters 'false starts'.

If I ask for uranium to be low, I want it low. if I ask for large patches, what's with the smearing of relatively useless patches (10-50k) across the map. I've cleared coal patches out of my way that had expected resources of < 1K per drill. It's rubbish and time wasting.

Somewhere sometime back you had water balanced. Large landmasses and large water bodies. The swampland look and constant need for landfill gets boring fast.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by someone1337 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:21 pm

Been restarting/regenerating for like 4 hours+ straight now. (edit: like 6 by now)
Then I wrote this post and gave up and went back to doing work stuff...

All I want are Continents: BIG homogenous bodies of Water and BIG homogenous bodies of land - not a swamp/mix.
It seems, 0.16.20 just wont do that. :(

The best I came to a "playable" map was with water set to very low and big.
Setting water to very low and very big will generate lakes everywhere and it feels like a swamp...

I dont care about biomes too much, but I really dislike desert/sand - Be it Minecraft, Factorio, Age or Empires, ...
Its cool, that setting Sand and Desert to None doesnt seem to affect map generation too much! :)

Imho the generator should be tuned to not jitter that much as it makes the world feel unnatural and unclean.

edit: after a few more attempts i decided to go for this, and use the bottom left and right "continents" - it will require a lot of water bombs and landfill, but I really want to try out factorio 16.x :)
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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Drasius » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:51 pm

I quite like Railworlds, so with a shiny new version and an idea for a different factory set-up (involving my first attempt a 1k Sci/min), I trundled off to the map gen to see what we could see. After a couple of false starts, I eventually decided to actually look at the map before investing time into setting up a base for a change and spent a good hour or so generating maps that had more than a pittance of Iron or weren't missing coal or stone completely from the starting zone. I eventually settled on one with a modest starting patch of Iron and way, way to much stone and coal and enough Uranium that even if I was planning on using nuclear power, I don't think I could ever get through 1/10th of it before the heat death of the universe.

Turns out there was billions of tonnes of copper and twice as much Stone out there as well but I've had to take extended fuel supplies and a cut lunch to find any more Iron and that apparently both Coal and Copper are related to having lakes nearby (that take out huge chunks of the resource patch). About the only thing that's even remotely as requested was oil fields, and even then it's been 1 big ~2000% clump and half a dozen small 300-60% pittances. I'm also having the same issues as everyone else with regards to the multitude of small puddles and lakes overpowering the landscape. The sad part is that this was about the best map that I could manage after an hour of fiddling with the settings and generating stuff while previously it was basically just generate a map and I'd be good. At least I wasn't overwhelmed with forests for a change, though it does kinda feel like I landed in the Pinnacles as there seems to be a large abundance of large rock formations dotting the landscape too.

Is it possible that removing cliffs from the map settings has anything to do with this change?

I must confess that I was strongly against the new look terrain, but it's grown on me over the hours of putting my base together, but it still feels like the areas chop and change too frequently. Still prefer the previous 0.15.x visuals however.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by impetus maximus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:21 pm

i can't find the quote, but a dev said they are aware of the map gen problems, but are waiting for 0.17 to fix them since it would break any existing 0.16 maps.
i've gone back to playing my 0.15.37 world. i only play 0.16.* in a lab setting. waiting for 0.17 map generation fix.
smHatter wrote:
Nazair wrote:So I guess until some fix/change the best way to get proper map is to generate it with 0.15 and then play in 0.16 ;x
Does that work ok? Once you progress out beyond the initial area doesn't it just start generating a 0.16 map?
if you generate in 0.15, then play in 0.16 any new chunks revealed will be generated with 0.16.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Jap2.0 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:55 pm

impetus maximus wrote:i can't find the quote, but a dev said they are aware of the map gen problems, but are waiting for 0.17 to fix them since it would break any existing 0.16 maps.
i've gone back to playing my 0.15.37 world. i only play 0.16.* in a lab setting. waiting for 0.17 map generation fix.
smHatter wrote:
Nazair wrote:So I guess until some fix/change the best way to get proper map is to generate it with 0.15 and then play in 0.16 ;x
Does that work ok? Once you progress out beyond the initial area doesn't it just start generating a 0.16 map?
if you generate in 0.15, then play in 0.16 any new chunks revealed will be generated with 0.16.
More recently they said that it might be fixed in 0.16 experimental if they can fix it soon.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by impetus maximus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:42 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:More recently they said that it might be fixed in 0.16 experimental if they can fix it soon.
really? that would be wonderful.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Jap2.0 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:10 pm

There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

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impetus maximus
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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by impetus maximus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:31 am

thanks Jap2.0

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Jap2.0 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:53 am

No problem.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by cpy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:47 pm

As a seablock player, I think new map is awesome!

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Nazair » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:01 pm

Well, I have to say that new map generation su... is very bad.

Below is a screen of map generated before 0.16.
https://imgur.com/a/a1neo
Nice map with a lot of both land and water, perfect in terms of resources and train systems.

Of course with 0.16 unexplored part of the map got regenerated and this is what I got.
https://imgur.com/a/LwWAc
Hell lot of small islands, quite often without a way in or out. Resources are just idiotically too far away with patches of 150M+ (I would just prefer 3 patches 50M each instead of one 150M ore patch 8000 units away from my starting location).
Stone is very rare, same goes for Iron in comparison to Copper.

In general my opinion is a big NO for new map generation. Prefer the one from 0.15 milion times over.
Hope it will be fixed soon or at least with 0.17

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Map Generation

Post by coopervegas » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:06 pm

I'm baffled why this hasn't been fixed yet. The map generation is game breaking.

1. Stone is almost always very low or totally missing. I just generated about 12 maps and each one has almost no stone or no stone at all. I don't get why the community isn't going bonkers about this.

2. The water/lake generation is terrible. People want to create 'normal' maps like you could prior to the map changes. I want coastlines, peninsulas, etc. The new maps just look like a bunch of fractal lakes. Fix please!

3. Deathworld is way too easy. The biter generation/density is way too easy now vs. what it used to be.

Please stop adding stuff and fix the basic maps to make the game playable again.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Koub » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:15 pm

[Koub] This is not a bug report ("Doesn't work as the devs want") but a feedback ("I don't like it the way it is"). Merged into 0.16 map gen feedback topic.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Resand » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:30 am

I was so looking forward to .16 to. Love the idea of Cliffs, and artillery would make it less of chore to expand on death worlds.
But I hate how the maps looks now, so can't ever get into a game.

- Cliffs are just small annoying obstacles. Not real cliff faces that can function as walls.
- No lakes/oceans. Only "swamp land".
- Almost no coal
- Almost no stone
- Almost all desert

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by tyroney » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:25 pm

I understand that open space is useful, and starting areas were adjusted to not be full of trees, but it seems like all I find in maps lately is desert, high desert,(as in kind of scrubby, rocky, some trees,) and then occasionally I'll see a halfway-forested area. I like to play deathworld, and I'm a serial restarter, and it's just been a super-throttled "watch pollution go everywhere before you've even built green science" fest.

Maybe I should start making a list of
map,apparent biome, missing resources, visible oil amt
for all my rerolls so that there's some practical data to point to.

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Re: Map Generation

Post by impetus maximus » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:49 pm

coopervegas wrote: Please stop adding stuff and fix the basic maps to make the game playable again.
they are aware the map gen has problems. i suggest you stick with 0.15 until it gets fixed.

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Re: 0.16 Map generation Feedback

Post by Nemac » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:01 pm

long time no played.. just install patch.
make about 50 maps with to low oil and no uran.
Check forum

go back to 0.15.x

how you get a bad desing decision like tihis?

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