i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

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quineotio
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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by quineotio »

Zavian wrote:There are situations where you might want to leave the game running whilst you are afk. eg spaceX whilst doing some of the long (250,000 flask) FTL researches (assuming you have decided you don't need/want to expand your base any more), or playing seablock whilst waiting on more landfill/resources during the early stages.
There are reasons to go afk, but should there be? The game is fun as is, and I feel like I've got my money's worth. But I feel like it could be way better. Once you've gone through the process and understand the game, it becomes way less interesting. There just aren't enough tradeoffs, and really not that many options. Yes it's fun figuring out how to make stuff and connect things up, calculate the ratios and get things running the way you want. But then after you've done it and understand what you're doing, it's a solved problem and busywork.

I WANT to play more, but it feels like I've seen all the fun the game has to offer.

There are a bunch of concepts that aren't explored very thoroughly. For example modules are completely unnecessary. Why bother with speed when you can just add more (cheaper) assemblers? Why add efficiency when you can just add more power? Why add productivity when you can just expand? Doing something like I suggested above where power becomes more/less efficient the closer it gets to capacity, would make efficiency more important. Maybe there's a long lead up time to increase the amount of boiling water, so steam engines have a lag before they reach the desired power (and a lag to power down) Would incentivize running the factory at a constant speed. Making assemblers wear out or require consumables would make productivity important (maybe you could make them wear out slower by running them slower). And you'd have to balance speed of production with the need to replace/repair your machines.

Maybe instead of the assemblers wearing out, you could have different types of internal components for assemblers that wear out over time. So perhaps you have a circuit module that increases productivity of circuit making assemblers. Maybe certain items require specialized modules. Maybe you can upgrade the modules to tweak the performance of different aspects of the machine. Maybe you can get built in inserts, or larger capacity for holding items, or the ability to connect directly with other assemblers without the need for inserters. Maybe you can group a bunch of different specialized assemblers together to make new designs possible.

Maybe there could be high quality versions of some items that require high quality components. For example, you use a specialized assembler to make a high quality green circuit, that takes longer to make an costs more materials. It functions exactly like other green circuits, except that if you use it to make a radar, the radar uses less power, or has a longer range, or scans faster. Basically it'd be a way to trade speed for quality.

Even stuff like being able to adjust the timing of inserters. Maybe you can, for example, reduce the capacity of an inserter to increase the speed it moves. Like, ways to get into the details of how individual buildings work and tweak them.

I'm just throwing ideas out there. I suggested more analysis and diagnostic tools in another thread, I think they might help too. Stuff to worry about after you've built a factory and it's running, and/or more late game, and/or more customization. So basically, more to do that isn't building stuff, more reasons to build more stuff, or more ways of building stuff.

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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by Zavian »

For me mods have added a lot of replayability to the game. But they have added a few times where I have gone afk whilst the game is running. You are right that in general that is undesirable, but since in my case this comes from the mods I'm using, I don't think you can blame the vanilla game for this.

If you are bored with the base game and haven't looked at mods, then I suggest that they could provide a reason to play again.

SpaceX provides a continuation of the existing game that adds more lategame research and a new objective. Some of this research is very expensive, and provides a incentive to really scale up production in a way that the vanilla game doesn't. That includes providing a reason to build big using beacons and modules, something you rightful pointed out you don't need if you just stop at launching a rocket. But eventually I reach the point where I have built as big as I intend to build, and don't feel like rebuilding large sections of the factory to increase production again. (Typically by this stage I'm noticing ups dropping, so I no longer have an incentive to increase production, since doing that without dropping ups further would likely require a major redesign). So I'm content to just let the final research run, possibly whilst I'm afk.

Bobs and Angels mods overhaul a lot of recipes in the game, and adds a ton of new recipes/building and researches, which will take quite a while to explore. (Bobs also provides new ways to tweak inserters).

Seablock provides a very different start to vanilla. (It also includes Bobs + Angels + SpaceX). You start on a tiny 2x1 island with a chest of materials, (including 1000 landfill), and need to harvest resources from the ocean to build a base and expand. That 1000 landfill is enough that establish a small base, but initially at least, resources gathering is slow, and so expanding the base is slow at this stage of the game. (Arguably the seablock developers could have given us more landfill, or a cheaper recipe, or maybe I just didn't understand how to get past this stage of the mod efficiently). So for me early this was a case of play for a bit, then eat a meal/go afk/watch a bit of youtube whilst resources accumulate, then play for a bit more.

quineotio
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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by quineotio »

Zavian wrote:For me mods have added a lot of replayability to the game. But they have added a few times where I have gone afk whilst the game is running. You are right that in general that is undesirable, but since in my case this comes from the mods I'm using, I don't think you can blame the vanilla game for this.

If you are bored with the base game and haven't looked at mods, then I suggest that they could provide a reason to play again.

SpaceX provides a continuation of the existing game that adds more lategame research and a new objective. Some of this research is very expensive, and provides a incentive to really scale up production in a way that the vanilla game doesn't. That includes providing a reason to build big using beacons and modules, something you rightful pointed out you don't need if you just stop at launching a rocket. But eventually I reach the point where I have built as big as I intend to build, and don't feel like rebuilding large sections of the factory to increase production again. (Typically by this stage I'm noticing ups dropping, so I no longer have an incentive to increase production, since doing that without dropping ups further would likely require a major redesign). So I'm content to just let the final research run, possibly whilst I'm afk.

Bobs and Angels mods overhaul a lot of recipes in the game, and adds a ton of new recipes/building and researches, which will take quite a while to explore. (Bobs also provides new ways to tweak inserters).

Seablock provides a very different start to vanilla. (It also includes Bobs + Angels + SpaceX). You start on a tiny 2x1 island with a chest of materials, (including 1000 landfill), and need to harvest resources from the ocean to build a base and expand. That 1000 landfill is enough that establish a small base, but initially at least, resources gathering is slow, and so expanding the base is slow at this stage of the game. (Arguably the seablock developers could have given us more landfill, or a cheaper recipe, or maybe I just didn't understand how to get past this stage of the mod efficiently). So for me early this was a case of play for a bit, then eat a meal/go afk/watch a bit of youtube whilst resources accumulate, then play for a bit more.
I agree that mods can make the game more interesting, but I don't want to rely on mods to make the game interesting. I may end up making my own mod after release, because I think the game has a lot of untapped potential. But I'd rather not have to.

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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by MeduSalem »

Hellatze wrote:I just play warframe. At least they keep adding stuff that intresting.
You do realize that Digital Extremes (the company behind Warframe) is in the business since the 90s and behind several bigger titles including various Unreal Tournament incarnations?

They have a lot more money, experience and man power (like 300+ people working on one title) in the game industry compared to an indie developer like Wube with Factorio being their first title ever.

I used to play Warframe myself (and I have several friends who still play it) when the Open Beta first started. While the gameplay was fun and can be quite addicting because of its easy Press-4-to-win-attitude (insiders will know what I mean)... I soon realized that it suffers severely from the all too typical Korean-Grindfest-syndrom. They have been effectively using shroud marketing tactics that are in disfavor of the player like a lot of other MMOs or MMO-like games do, like key-gating content, rapid item-devaluation, making new content unbalanced on purpose in relation to existing content so players have an increased incentive to grind for them, also rigging the drop chances beyond ridiculousness when a new item comes out so it takes people longer to get them, and all kinds of other nasty tricks. All of which has an effect on trade economics for their Platinum Premium Currency.

And when complaints of people about all these things eventually get out of control Digital Extremes always came up with the cheap "It's Open Beta, so things are meant to be buggy / unbalanced"-excuse (with White Knights defending them) and magically fixed their obvious marketing tactics in the next update (as if they were expecting it already and just wanted to see with how much they can get away) just to do it all over again with the next big update. They are professionals in causing constant hypetrain-crashes. It's just ugly but the way a lot of these companies work nowadays. I really wonder how long they want to keep the Open Beta title as a defensive shield to hold off justified criticism, which a lot of people expressed on their forums already but got either ignored, silenced or outright banned. It grows old and tired very fast and I lost my faith in Digitial Extremes (as well as several other companies relying on the same tactics) because of all that. I really liked them better back when they worked together with Epic Games on Unreal Tournament and they weren't such a shroudy and slimy semi-scam factory.

To get to the point where the shit really hits the fan is... Warframe is built upon using above described tactics because it heavily relies on Microtransactions which I absolutely despise as a monetarization scheme because it exploits people's weaknesses to the point they lose control. All the above described tactics have a huge influence on how much money people are willing to dump into the game even though they shouldn't spend a fucking Cent on it since technically and spiritually it is marketed as Free-to-Play. "Ninjas play free" my ass. Warframe and other games alike it are true masterpieces (or more likely disasterpieces) of working psychological consumer manipulation. That kind of monetarization scheme is the reason why Warframe can keep on going/expanding in the first place because they rely on addicted people, hardcore fans, whales and even casual players to spend thousands of Dollars/Euros on the game to speed up progression in the neverending grind (so you don't fall behind in the arms race) or on cosmetics and one-time-deals etc, that way making more money out of the game than they would do if they would ask an initial 50 bucks from every player and an additional subscription fee of 10 bucks per month (because that would initially scare off potential new customers). A lot of people say they don't and won't spend anything on the game but a lot of them eventually end up guilty as charged because eventually you need some Platinum to progress in a timely fashion which acts as an initial barrier and once broken doesn't hold people off anymore to continue spending more on the game. Usually people don't want to talk about it because talking about an addiction is unpleasant and no one really likes to admit their shame.

I do feel guilty, because I helped funding that shitheap of a game in the naive belief that since they did a good job on helping create the Unreal Tournament Series and tried to do Warframe independently from a publisher they'd eventually snap out of this madness once they established the brand... and not get deeper into the shit, especially after they sold themselves out to some Chinese Conglomerate. It's the main reason why I have a deep, everlasting grudge against the Digital Extremes and Warframe, because I stopped playing about 3 years ago after it almost ruined my life and after I lost several friends to the game... and yet sometimes I can still feel the damn urge to return and play again because I really liked the gameplay, lore and mysticism about it. That's a true abyss of my soul right there I rarely talk about... Restraining oneself from returning to something that you know is utterly self-destructive. It's like trying to get out of an abusive and manipulative relationship which slowly drains your soul drop by drop. I'm glad that I'm out of it... and it changed my perspective on the video game industry as a whole as I would never ever again buy/fund or play games that have such marketing and monetarization schemes. On the contrary... I think people should be made more aware about the possible consequences and my deepest sympathies go to people who are still into some kind of video game addiction (or serious/existence-threatening addiction in general).



That said there are more ridiculous games out there like Star Citizen where there isn't even a game yet living solely on the neverending hypetrain and individual people are spending tenthousands of Dollars on it... let me just say that it's a trend in the video game market I really don't like and where I'd rather wish for a second video game market crash (similar to the one from 1983) than seeing that becoming a standard. Vaporware shit like that should be forbidden by law... because if the project gets canceled no one will see their money again and investors got nothing in return... There are literally no guarantees Roberts and his team won't just call it a day due to technical difficulties rendering the project a deadend and then run off while scamming everyone who invested into the project out of their money. Who's going to judge them if they did? They would just say they ran out of money and then live on an island somewhere in the middle of nowhere for the rest of their days... and even if they were to be caught they'd have the best lawyers they could get for people's money.

There's just too much trust put into non-existent / non-finished products lately... and people are often too blinded by promises to listen to their own common sense and be realistic about expectations.



That's why I think that Wube is among the few companies who are at least honest about their development limitations and marketing/monetarization when it comes to Factorio. I'd rather have them admit that certain things are out of their current capabilities (like they did when they cut the plans for the space platform) than overextend themselves or having to resort on ugly monetarization schemes to push through at all means necessary and end up with a bad reputation and bitter aftertaste in the mouth of the playerbase.

Also we are talking about an one-time 20 bucks here which is like 4 packs of cigarettes where I live... Can't say I got as much fun out of my last 80 cigarettes as I got out of Factorio. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So it is a large difference in what other games like the two mentioned above (Warframe, Star Citizen) charge(d) for certain content. When directly compared it is just ridiculous... like for example 45-125 bucks at Warframe for their current Prime Access stuff which they will rotate out at some point, or 50-300 bucks for some ships at Star Citizen people can only look at in a hangar.

People should probably be glad that Factorio costs only 20 bucks and provides the amount of content and playtime it does, because looking at other games in comparison it's almost a deal too good to be true in nowadays video game market.

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Hellatze
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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by Hellatze »

Wall of text bla bla bla

Sum it up please, nobody want to read essai.

Btw this factorio reach 1 million copy sales right. And that sales never get discount.

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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by cpy »

100 hour is my shortest game :D
Best fun/money ratio game for me.

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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by player8472 »

as for the rest of the response, you guys are too offensive. seriously, if you doesn't like my thread just get out.
Same could be said for you...

It's a sandbox game.
The Devs won't make a Theme-Park game out of it, just because 0.0001 percent of their customers would like that.

And like others said: If you want a fixed challenge: Take on Bobs/Angels/SpaceX - I am on a playthrough and not nearly finished after >200h in.
If that's not for you, that's ok too.

But even if you can enjoy it "just" for 100h: please think about this:
- A ticket for the cinema costs 5€(discounted) for 2h (250€ for 100h)
- An AAA-Title costs 60€ for 20-40h (my personal experience)
- Netflix costs 10€ per month (I guess about the same value if your as extreme as I am)
- PayTV costs at least ~15€ per month

In the End even with just ~100h of fun, factorio is still one of the cheapest option to "kill a month"(At least i don't have more than 100h/month when working).
AND: with the exception of the AAA-Title none of my listed options have the advantage of you stopping it's usage and coming back to it at a later time without paying again...
Wall of text bla bla bla

Sum it up please, nobody want to read essai.
Really?!?
Complaining about ppl being aggressive towards you and then directly attacking someone a few days after for explaining himself too much?

Btw: It would be an essay!

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Jon8RFC
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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by Jon8RFC »

player8472 wrote:The Devs won't make a Theme-Park game out of it, just because 0.0001 percent of their customers would like that.
Literally one out of a million...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
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Hellatze
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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by Hellatze »

player8472 wrote:
as for the rest of the response, you guys are too offensive. seriously, if you doesn't like my thread just get out.
Same could be said for you...

It's a sandbox game.
The Devs won't make a Theme-Park game out of it, just because 0.0001 percent of their customers would like that.

And like others said: If you want a fixed challenge: Take on Bobs/Angels/SpaceX - I am on a playthrough and not nearly finished after >200h in.
If that's not for you, that's ok too.

But even if you can enjoy it "just" for 100h: please think about this:
- A ticket for the cinema costs 5€(discounted) for 2h (250€ for 100h)
- An AAA-Title costs 60€ for 20-40h (my personal experience)
- Netflix costs 10€ per month (I guess about the same value if your as extreme as I am)
- PayTV costs at least ~15€ per month

In the End even with just ~100h of fun, factorio is still one of the cheapest option to "kill a month"(At least i don't have more than 100h/month when working).
AND: with the exception of the AAA-Title none of my listed options have the advantage of you stopping it's usage and coming back to it at a later time without paying again...
Wall of text bla bla bla

Sum it up please, nobody want to read essai.
Really?!?
Complaining about ppl being aggressive towards you and then directly attacking someone a few days after for explaining himself too much?

Btw: It would be an essay!
even an essay must be explained simply.

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evildogbot100
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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by evildogbot100 »

Hellatze wrote: even an essay must be explained simply.
tl;dr Don't like don't play

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Re: i find this game become boring after 100 hour.

Post by Koub »

[Koub] This thread has outlived its usefulness. Topic locked.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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