Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

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Zonk
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Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Zonk »

For example to make engines i want one belt carrying pipes on one side and steel and iron gear wheels on the other side. Like this:
Neue Bitmap (3).jpg
Neue Bitmap (3).jpg (35.56 KiB) Viewed 4134 times

Since it needs 2 pipes and 1 wheel/ steel it would be a perfect ratio if i could make sure the one beltside is filled properly 50/50 with steel/ wheels.

However every solution i came up with had a flaw. If i use splitters belts always have to be fully saturated.
If 2 beltreader let one item out if there are 0 on the belt one further down the beltway is often blocked by items already let in on the belt. (reading there also makes it drips in to slow) and so on...

I saw some working solutions for researchflasks where we put 6 different items on a belt. Main difference is that we dont need and have the perfect ammount of items on the belt, sometimes its 10 red 2 blue and 15 green and at one point of the circle we read what comes in and feed it whith what is missing for average predifened number. Also i dont want to use a circle (i could if its the only way) without circles my factories on the end of the belt wil miss a item and stop working.

Played a bit with combinators but i guess iam to unexpirienced with the neccesarry mathematically logic. I think i had a few propper attemps by dividing the one through the other but in the end the result wasnt statisfiying enough because it wasnt failsafe on one or the other end.

I want it balanced! Doesnt matter if it puts 1 wheel 3 steel 1 wheel 1 steel 2 wheel and so on or alwways 1 on 1 as long as the numbers are averageon a scale of say at least 2 belts wide.

Anyone ever got a usable solution?
Last edited by Zonk on Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PacifyerGrey
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by PacifyerGrey »

Take a look at ideas here
viewtopic.php?f=202&t=49428

Zonk
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Zonk »

Thanks man but i looked through that already. It isnt really balanced.

Edit: On a 2nd look they feed the blue belt with yellow belts. Seems liek a good idea but if one belt gets empty the other still unloads to the blue belt. Maybe there could be made a somehow working solution with a check if belts are filled.

Edit 2:
A picture say more than 100 words:
Neue Bitmap (5).jpg
Neue Bitmap (5).jpg (101.63 KiB) Viewed 4117 times
either its 1/2 all teh way or i never get anymore wheels if i ever get a little backlog on the belt...
Both a similar destroying teh whole idea.

Selvek
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Selvek »

Hmm interesting problem. May do a little experimenting tonight, but I think using a splitter merge would work if you use the same "compressed belt" detection used by a priority splitter (the two-splitter variety, not the leaky variety- see viewtopic.php?f=18&t=47050&p=271905&hil ... er#p271905).

Or, you could use a buffer chest with a few items in it, and two unloading stack inserters such that you know that if there are more than ~20 items in the chest, the belt lane is guaranteed to be compressed (may have issues if you lose power).

Once you figure out how to detect belt compression, all you have to do is turn off the belt immediately after the merge point to prevent one item from stealing all the belt slots.

Zonk
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Zonk »

Iam experimenting in circles :P didnt thought a seemingly simple tast would be so complex to manage.

Yeah reading belt contents and anly let one out at a time works fine with a splitter as long a si use both sides of a belt but as soon as i try to merge it on only one side the results arent as reliable as expected.

I think the only chance will be starting with 2 different belts, each only one side filled. Counting the troughput and only open towards a splitter if the numbers of wheels steel is even. Maybe there have to be some limitator before so ressources slowly drip in one by one.
Doing this twice and merge both to get more than a few items on a blue belt but here iam again getting headaches from combinators...

Ill guess i sleep over it and get on it tomorrow with a fresh head

Zonk
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Zonk »

Found a solution where i didnt find a flaw yet but its already too late night for propper testing. It seems to work evem if one belt isnt fully saturated.
Neue Bitmap (5).jpg
Neue Bitmap (5).jpg (201.52 KiB) Viewed 4051 times
Top 2 Belts are set to read and hold.
Bottom 2 Belts are set to enable if green = 2
Decider Combinator read each items and give green x1 if its 2 or greater.

The half belt going out after splitter seems to be saturaded at around 80%

The wiring is off there are too many red wires didnt realice unitl i uploded it but its working anyway :D
Didnt try yet but i think if i set Combinator tp >=1 and one ressource have only one inside there may go more than 1 of the other through

torne
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by torne »

I made a version that seems to work with just one wire and only one speed of belt for relatively low throughput situations:
threewaymerge.png
threewaymerge.png (359.13 KiB) Viewed 4010 times
(the merge belt is just set to read contents, hold).

First one of each item moves onto the output belt: 1=1, which keeps the input on, but after a second one of each item joins the output belt, one of the items has moved off the end and the number is no longer equal, so the input stops until all four items have left the belt and the count is back down to 0=0 again.

This isn't fast enough to feed something that needs a fully saturated belt, but it works fine to feed a pretty huge number of engine assemblers since they're very slow.

torne
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by torne »

Hm, actually that will run unevenly if the inputs aren't compressed.

Xtrafresh
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Xtrafresh »

The REAL problem with these type of contraptions is the belt always needs to be moving. If you ever back it up, or have an uneven draw from it so one of the two items back it up, half your factory will shut down. This is why you typically need to loop these belts in on themselves to keep the flow going. Congratulations, you have now entered the wonderful realm of sushi belts! It's a terrifying place, and usually creates more problems than it solves, but it *can* work.
If all you want to do is deliver three item types on one belt-lane, you might want to look into belt-braiding instead. Use two different colors of undergrounds, and you have 4 lanes at your disposal, possibly using that 4th as the output if you want to be even more compact :)

Zonk
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by Zonk »

I tested my previosly design from yesterday night and i couldlndt create any problems with the flow.

Backlog is no problem at all
If one belt have no items its waiting for them to arrive before supplying again
If one or both belts get slowed down teh system adapts to the slowest belt

However if whil the system is running someone takes items from the splitter itself it can result in disrupting the order.

Yeah Belt braiding works too but in that case i wanted one simple belt... Didnt thought it may require that much of work and space.

Blueprint:

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

Just adjustWhees and steel

SQLek
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Re: Any ideas 3 items on one Belt?

Post by SQLek »

Problem of multiple items on belts without closed loop is solvable.

Ladies and Gents i present You a Inserterizer (first prototype)
Advantages:
  • Allows backing up output, Will simply halt and wait for space to put items
  • Allows of not fully compressed input, even empty input. Will simply wait for ingredients.
  • Do not need for priming
  • Allow pairing on two sides of belt.
Disadvantages:
  • If multiple of the same belts are present will nullify waiting for ingredients feature.
  • Only two such contraption per belt, so only two same item per item packet.
  • Throughput isn't great.
  • Inability to use stack inserters, will only pick one item
Inserterizer at action
Inserterizer at action
Screenshot_20170617_200054.png (1.31 MiB) Viewed 3901 times
Inserterizer Blueprint
Blueprint doesn't contain "creative mode" entities.

Should i continue reaserch on this topic?

-- EDIT --
I think that i over think with prototype...

Optimized version is much smaller, still immune to backing up or lack of ingredients but also have much bigger throughput and regulated ratio.
Inserterizer
Inserterizer
Screenshot_20170617_222155.png (1.33 MiB) Viewed 3868 times
Optimized version

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