Factorio Forums

So one of the oddities that struck me with factorio is that even though it's set in the future and you're colonizing a new world, you're still researching basic concepts.

Here's my attempt to make that make sense.

Most of what research labs do isn't actually research. Instead they're specialized assemblers, prototyping plants basically. See, the supplies you landed on the planet with may be enough to bootstrap your way up to a factory but you lack a lot of the more specialized parts, especially those involved in upgrading your equipment.

So what each "lab" does when you set a task for research is build a run of parts. For basic parts, like those needed for Logistics I or Automation I this is simpler and once you've got the initial batch you can produce more yourself so the batches are small. Later on the parts are more complicated so the runs get larger as the machines dedicate themselves to producing enough parts to last a while. (Alternatively, later runs also produce additional runs of basic parts alongside their main project.)

As for the individual science packs, each one reprsents the supplies used for each run of mechanisms. A red pack might just be basic mechanical and electrical parts while blue science packs contain all the high tech odds and ends for machines that need, for example, to withstand high operating stresses or their own onboard power supplies or capacitors.

Thoughts?

Thoughts: I've problems to understand, what you wanted to say.

But for the rest it's just pure logic! For me the research is needed, cause you have found the construction plans in the board-computer, but they cannot be used like so, cause the hightech, needed for production is not there yet.

I think this is not clear at the first thought, so I will explain it more detailed.

The problem is: On earth we have already gone this way. We have built up many high-tech industries and the low-tech is no longer needed. Lower technologies are rebuilt, destroyed or just gone rotten.

Simple example: Shoes. In about 100 B.C. not many persons wear shoes. Even in the middleage. In the begin of the 1940th not many childs had more than one pair of shoes (and only for the winter). In the end of the 40 the job of the shoemaker began to die. And now we have gigantic factories to produce masses of shoes very cheap. But that production has not much to do anymore with how shoes have been made more than 2000 years long.

If we nowadays should try to rebuilt everything from zero, we need to learn first, how we can make the basic stuff again.

So this is what the labs do: They find a way to use hightech from lowtech.

ssilk wrote:Thoughts: I've problems to understand, what you wanted to say.

No problem, the two of you end up saying nearly the same thing: you describe how the lack of a previous industry requires adaption of schematics (due to lack of "high-tech" stuff), and how research tries to circumvent this problem; he describes how the lack of a previous industry causes a lack of supply, and how labs produce lacking "high-tech" stuff.
(At least, that's how I understood each of you)

For my own take on the matter:

I like to imagine the lab's work as an actual research of sorts; for that, I'd like to elaborate on my view.

It's seems obvious that, in the Factorio universe, although mankind has achieved space travel of sorts, we didn't advance that far technologically. For example, despite laser weaponry becoming possible, our standard-issue sidearm still uses this silly, bullet-based design of the mid 20th century, instead of something more... sophisticated. This, and the crash of the space ship that forms the campaign's premise, also hints that humanity has not much experience in space travel. Man was, however, somewhat prepared to make adjustments.

So, why is research necessary? The schematics we have all assume earth-like conditions. The little planet(lets call it "Biter-ropolis") we crashed/landed on, however, varies greatly from earth.
How?
For example, raw iron ore on earth usually has a reddish-brown hue due to oxidation (a.k.a. rust), while raw iron on Biter-ropolis has kept it's silvery appearance. This suggests that Biter-ropolis' atmosphere has next to no oxygen, despite it's vast forests. Furthermore, robots manage to stay aloft on a meager 600W consumption, despite carrying several barrels of liquid. This, in turn, suggests Biter-ropolis' gravity is far lower than earth's gravity, leading further to a much thinner atmosphere. And these are just examples; there could be many more differences to account for.

Why is this important, though?
The aforementioned examples show how the atmospheric conditions vary greatly from earth. Heat dissipation, for example, is hugely dependant on the surrounding atmosphere.
Let's imagine you have a USB-Keyboard. Inside this keyboard is a small chip responsible for communication between the keys and the PC. On earth, this little chip is just "there"; the little heat its operation generates can dissipate over the air inside the keyboard. On Biter-ropolis, due to the much lower atmospheric density, the very same chip doing the exact same thing might need a radiator, or even a fan, to prevent fatal over-heating.
The effect is much bigger for things which already do some notable work, fast inserters for example. The schematic is there from the beginning, ready for use in earth-like conditions. Except you ain't on earth.
But the player's character is an engineer. If something can be done, and an engineer wants it done, it's guaranteed to get done eventually. The most basic of equipment was already meant to operate in a wide spectrum of conditions, and could be adjusted "by hand". For the vast majority of schematics however, this is just too much work. A better solution needs to found, some way to.... automate the mathematics of re-adjusting. The basis for this is the way complex, assembled products are brought into a digital schematic, leading us into the world of computer-aided design, or CAD for short. Feed it a schematic (which also tells what part needs to remain within what parameters), supply it with an algorithm to iterate through various steps of adjustments and prototyping*, and all you need are some place and some parts for the program to do its thing. Eventually, it will have transformed things to work in local conditions. More sophisticated schematics, of course, need more sophisticated components for their prototypes, which have to be supplied to the dedicated "play-grounds", or laboratories, where the program can interface with physical space and build (and analyze!) its prototypes.

Doing this, the programs work actually approximates research, slowly but steadily increasing its "knowledge" of the local enviroment while taking small, but iterative steps towards a specific goal.


(* = Step one - actuator on fast inserter overheats: apply radiator, build radiator proto-type and field-test.
Step two - added radiator weight leads to actuator overload: make it more powerful, build prototype and field-test.
Step three - new actuator specifications changed acceleration properties, invalidating assumptions made by the controlling firmware: update firmware to new specifications, compile prototype and field-test.
Step four - new actuator too heavy for lower arm assembly, leading to structual collapse after some number of operations: improve structual integrity [noticed the added iron?], build prototype and field-test.
Step five.....)

Kazuar wrote:

ssilk wrote:Thoughts: I've problems to understand, what you wanted to say.

No problem, the two of you end up saying nearly the same thing: you describe how the lack of a previous industry requires adaption of schematics (due to lack of "high-tech" stuff), and how research tries to circumvent this problem; he describes how the lack of a previous industry causes a lack of supply, and how labs produce lacking "high-tech" stuff.
(At least, that's how I understood each of you)

Yeah I think that's about right.

For my own take on the matter:

I like to imagine the lab's work as an actual research of sorts; for that, I'd like to elaborate on my view.

*snip*

Oooh, yeah I can see that working. It also explains Alien Science Packs better than my own conception. (Using them to see how native life adapted to the local environment and cribbing from them.)

Edit: Disregard my reply, I mixed up which tech need what kind of science pack...

...and why do we need Alien artifacts to give us access to the most advanced research. We need the aliens to be more intelligent or magical to close the loop on why we need their artifacts. (but who cares when you're busy paving their world with steam engines and railroads!)