hansinator wrote:I don't see how a tutorial could help with the topics that have been brought up here. There is already the combinator 101 and the wiki has lots of example circuit network applications. Or do you mean something different than circuit network tutorials? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something..
Well, it's a free play game and follows this credo to the excess. But the devs cannot test all situations, they cannot know, how a player thinks.
Control how many items are input into the machine. I have a very simple working solution for that (viewtopic.php?f=193&t=35380). Being able to set the inserter stack size would basically change nothing for smart furnaces or smart assemblers that are fed from belts.
Maybe I'm playing too long Factorio or so, but I don't see so much sense in doing this.
I believe that this is an interesting experiment
and see some players think into that direction. But why?? ... There are so many other ways to build stuff
, dozens, many, many more, that it is just not really needed
. No real need in building this kind of machine.
Of course, some will cry now: "Cause I can do it. Cause it's interesting!"
No question. But when I tried to do things like that (and I really tried a lot) I come to some point and see, that it wouldn't work as expected and then I destructed the whole part and rebuild some simpler construction, that does the same, but it works and takes more resources to built or more space...
Unlike other players I have no problem with that. O.K. I'm a bit sad. Just a bit.
So I think I understand most of the arguments. But I think some players don't realize how many possibilities they have and that there is no reason to be sad. For example belt logic is a chapter on it's own: You can build otherwise complex logic just with belts and inserters and chests. Possibilities are really ENDLESS.
What I meant with the tutorial is, that the devs should show in such a tutorial, how they
thought to use the whole stuff in this game. What possibilities a user has from their
sight. How the stuff was implemented and why. That would bring players faster to success, if they are stuck, cause I see them thinking in a bubble.
The other possibilities would still exists and can be explored. But perhaps after
they learned the basics.
Yes, basics is the right word! Comparison: Children learn in school addition before multiplication. In Factorio you are free to learn anything in (more or less) some order. That's fine. But I think there are players, which never learned addition and started with multiplication and now lament about how complex it is to add things.
But I cannot be sure and I cannot ask them "Did you learn circuit lesson #2?".
And I know: This subject is about circuits. But - again - circuits are not thought to be needed or even complete, cause of the other possibilities you have.
So the point of this discussion is, that there are some players, that like to build circuits and don't like, that they can't do everything with them. No offense. I mean, it's a bit meta to discuss about non-existent problems of computer simulated logic circuits in the size of a washing machine.
(BTW: The Washing Machine Tragedy by Stanislaw Lem: https://books.google.de/books?id=1DNVzp ... dy&f=false
Nevertheless, I have the feeling that you want to defend the devs against criticism because of their good work that they have put into the game (again, correct me if I'm wrong). It's not that I (and probably the other people, too) want to attack them or discredit anything.
No. No, really it's just that I don't see the point. Circuits is just one "world" of Factorio. Besides them there are others: Belts, trains, logistics, which are all about the size of the circuits to learn and really understand. They go just into another direction... There are players, that want to play only with circuits. Well, that's fine. But that system is currently not complete and not thought to be complete and perhaps will always have "flaws".
You need to see the factory a whole and not as power-delivery for the circuits to show videos.
IMHO playing only with the circuits doesn't bring you really forward in Factorio.
If it leaves the impression that I am disrespecting their work then I offer my excuse for that. In the end it is also necessary that criticism is brought up and be discussed in a constructive way. I'd say the overall discussion is very constructive. So far we have heard very different perspectives in this thread and I hope everyone got a little wiser from that. At least I did.
Ah. That's cool. I don't see any need to defend them. I have my own opinion.
But I'm also wiser. I tried if there is something, which describes the kind of mathematical problem behind the belts and so on and I found this:
which I found through the list of NP-complete-problems:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karp%27s_ ... e_problems
It's a good question if Factorio belongs into that class of problem and if the game is a way to solve this problem in "linear time"...