Shotgun Shells - explained

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Hayertjez
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Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Hayertjez »

Hi could someone tell my why shotgun shells have a Damage 12 x 4 Physical. How can I calculate the damage I'll will be doing. I can understand submachine gun 2 + 0.2 Physical but multiply?

Xeanoa
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Xeanoa »

Per shot it fires 12 bullets dealing 4 physical damage each.

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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by bobucles »

Yes it is a bit confusing because the numbers are shown in the wrong order.
The tooltip says

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DMG: 12x4
which reads out loud as "damage is 12 pellets times 4 damage". It's obviously going to be confusing! It should properly be

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DMG: 4x12
which enunciates as "damage is 4 times 12 pellets"

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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Xeanoa »

It's (12) (times) (4 Physical), so the desciption is very clear on that, and in line with all other ammunition.

bobucles
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by bobucles »

Yeah, nah.

This thread comes up every month.

It comes up every month because the tooltip is bad.

A tooltip should not say that "Damage is equal to the number of projectiles times the damage". That's a load of bad engrish and you know it.

A tooltip should present information in causal order. Say that "Damage is equal to the listed damage, plus check out these multiple projectiles. Pretty sweet, huh".

Xeanoa
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Xeanoa »

In my opinion, the proper order is number of projectiles first, then the damage per projectile.

If there really was a thread like this every month, you should make a collective list in your OP to show you're not alone with the problem, and that it deserves developer's attention.

bobucles
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by bobucles »

In my opinion, the proper order is number of projectiles first, then the damage per projectile.
By that same reasoning the damage of a rocket is equal to its AoE range first, then the damage second.

The number of projectiles is the functional AoE of the shotgun. It should not be listed first. It's a bad description and the sooner you realize it the better.

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Dr. Walrus
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Dr. Walrus »

I'm going to have to agree with Xeanoa. 12 x 4 physical makes perfect sense to me. Would the alternate be written as 4 physical x 12? And by the AoE analogy, number of pellets should be written first because AoE is written second and describes the projectile similarly to how 4 physical is written second and describes each of the 12 pellets.

For clarity, I think the tooltip should read:

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Attack: 12x4 physical dmg
because it's describing more than just damage, it's describing everything that happens when you pull the trigger including number of pellets and size of AoE.

saturn7
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by saturn7 »

Since both 12x4 and 4x12 are ambiguous, I would prefer it listed as

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4 physical damage, 12 projectiles per shot.

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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Xeanoa »

saturn7 wrote:Since both 12x4 and 4x12 are ambiguous, I would prefer it listed as

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4 physical damage, 12 projectiles per shot.

It does not list 12x4, nor 4x12, but 12x4 Physical, and that's unambigious

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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by ssilk »

But when listed as
12 shells/shoot x 4 physicals dmg
It would be obvious, cause physically correct.
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prg
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by prg »

If you wanted to get the units right, you'd need to do something like

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12 projectiles/shell * 4 physical damage/projectile = 48 physical damage/shell
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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Blurb »

bobucles wrote: A tooltip should not say that "Damage is equal to the number of projectiles times the damage". That's a load of bad engrish and you know it.

A tooltip should present information in causal order. Say that "Damage is equal to the listed damage, plus check out these multiple projectiles. Pretty sweet, huh".
It's perfectly plain English, although you conveniently forgot the "per projectile" at the end in your first example.
It makes perfect sense to me, but it might just be that I've been edumacated in how to use units and multiply numbers.

Consider an alternate example:
What is the mass of a sixpack, where each can has a mass of 400 grams?
6 times 400 grams. Or 400 grams times 6.
Note that both give the exact same result (2400 grams).

It's the exact same with shotgun shells. What is the total damage of a shotgun shell?
12 times 4 physical. Or 4 physical times 12.
Doesn't matter, it still comes down to 48 physical damage.

Arguing that one ordering of numbers is more correct than the others is pants-on-head retarded to say the least.
The bottom line is that multiplication is a commutative operation, and doesn't care for your personal (and rather arbitrary) preferences.

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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Kazuar »

I'm in favor of projectile number first, then damage/projectile, 'cause that is the established convention in the industry, much like W+A+S+D is preferred over "special snowflake" layouts like T+F+G+H or something (but that way, you're in the middle of the keyboard with SO MUCH more hotkeys IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES SENSE) [/s]

Nah, let's go with "12x4 physical", like everyone else in video gaming is.
[Note: I'm actually sorry if my posts come off as rude; english is not my native language, and I'm not aware of all it's nuances. Please do point out my misadoptions in tone!]

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Re: Shotgun Shells - explained

Post by Xenomorph »

It's 12x4 physical!

And you can't say 12x4=48 physical.
It's a Shotgun which spread the projectiles on a wide area. If you shot you must deal the damage for each projectile alone. Only all 12 hit the same target it takes the 48 phsical.

If you want to do 48 physical with every shot ask the developer or some modders to implent some slugs (1 big projectile in a shotgun shell).

But the shotgun, almost the combat shotgun is to deal damage on many enemies in close combat.

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