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Hi,
I have a question for "Lazy bastard" achievement:
I've see a you-tube from "Liquid Media Games" and I see that mining ore without an axt is much much faster than is is now in 0.14.4.

In 0.14.4 it took nearly more than 40 seconds to mine 1 ore and in the video about 7 sec.

Did I do something wrong or maybe it is a bug?

THX

Shouldn't need to mine manually other than 1 piece of coal to start up the drill.

The early game in lazy bastard needs some patience.

Set up the mining drill on coal, to use the furnace as its output chest.

Mine one piece of coal, and use that to start up the drill.

Once it has mined a few pieces, put those pieces from the furnace back into the drill, and go gather wood for later use.

Like so you can get a stack or two of coal right out of the gate with minimal effort.

Next move the drill and furnace to iron. Same thing, the furnace is the chest- only this time you need to fuel drill and furnace so it smelts right away.

Nurse this along till you have a couple stacks of iron.

Repeat it a third time on copper, getting a stack or two of that as well.

Then put it all together on stone one last time, but this time don't put any fuel in the furnace- you want to keep the stone.

Like so, with minimal effort, some patience, and some calculation of how much iron copper and stone to mine, you now have enough material in your inventory to create 3 boilers, a steam engine, an offshore pump, a lab, 10 red science packs, and an assembler I. All with a minimum of handcrafting and effort on your part.

Quite simply, most people going for lazy bastard are working way too hard to get there. Be lazy and take your time getting it, you'll find it easier to achieve. I did it with exactly 100 handcrafts from start to rocket launch, but well over 30 hours game time.

Thanks !!!

What I have forgotten was:

Set up the mining drill on coal, to use the furnace as its output chest.

Furnance as chest .. right

Much thanks

I've not completed the lazy bastard, but I got to the assembler2.

You are allowed to craft an extra mining drill and still complete the challenge. If you put two coal drills to insert into each other they will go on continously until they are both full. I alternate coal mining with ore mining, either setting both on iron or one on each. That not only makes coal mining a bit easier, it also speeds up mining 2x which makes the beginning a lot less boring...

I wouldn't recommend an extra mining drill. Set down your drill and furnace on a spot and let it generate as much of that resource as you need to get the Automation research done and all the bits made, then move on to the next (coal > iron > copper). If it's too tedious I'd recommend still doing this to your first assembler, crafting all the ingredients for the drill then manually crafting the drill itself so you only use up one craft instead of five.

Instead of using coal to start the initial drill, cut a tree down, it's quicker. Fallen trees are faster still. I do recommend crafting the pick, it's not too many crafts and it will save soooooo much hassle moving your drill and furnace around (unless you're going for the score more than the achievement). Just don't use it to mine too much lest it break before you get automation.

Why wouldn't you craft the extra mining drill? You have enough extra crafts to make both a pick and an extra mining drill, so unless you are trying to complete it with minimal crafts, what else would you craft that speeds up or eases the challenge?

Oil refinery... You must manual craft that one too and that is much later. Preferrably more than one. You cant manufacture one without assembler3 and you need blue bottles to research that and blue bottles need oil. Oil needs refinery. So there we are.

vanatteveldt wrote:Why wouldn't you craft the extra mining drill? You have enough extra crafts to make both a pick and an extra mining drill, so unless you are trying to complete it with minimal crafts, what else would you craft that speeds up or eases the challenge?

It's not clear to me the drill by itself is worthwhile.

The first phase of the lazy game is gathering a sufficiency of coal (enough to get to assembly 1). According to this a "sufficiency" is 37. (Sounds right-ish, I gave myself more wiggle room than that of course.) The burner mining drill apparently yields ~0.28 coal/iron/copper per second (or ~3.5 seconds per item), which works out to about 132 seconds to mine the 37 coal. Figure two drills doubles your rate, so you save about 66 seconds on coal extraction. Meh. Those are 66 seconds you can use to your advantage anyway, by exploring or whatnot.

The troubles increase slightly when you consider that you can't start with coal mining, because you don't yet have enough iron plate to build a second drill right off the bat. So first you have to mine and smelt iron a bit (using wood as fuel to get those starting plates before you even start getting coal, at least, that's how I get started), so it's not just so straightforward as build another, to get those 66 seconds back. Maybe when all is said and done you'd save fifty seconds, for a lot more manual effort? Not worth it IMHO.

I guess after that you can use the drills to double the rate you extract copper and iron, but of course speed there isn't much use without a second stone furnaces. These furnaces create iron/copper plate at one per 3.5 seconds (about the same rate as the burner drills themselves, so one burner drill can feed one furnace, roughly), so you'd need another craft to make that second drill "useful" beyond mining coal.

Altogether you then need 104 iron and 34 copper, I guess. Doubling the rate here with two crafts would bring the time for the iron and copper from about 8 minutes down to about 4 minutes. Then of course you have an extra furnace so you have something to do after you turn the first furnace into your boiler, saving, I guess, a bunch more time. Indeed this second benefit can be realized by building one more furnace, without worrying about having a second drill at all.

So, my own evaluation is that one extra drill, alone, is almost certainly not worth it. An extra drill and furnace, especially the furnace, is perfectly understandable.

I personally did not use extra crafts in my "lazy" playthrough, but if I'd been of a mind to use two extra crafts, I would not use it on a drill or a furnace, but on an inserter to make the babysitting of assemblers between assembly 1 and assembly 2 more bearable. Having to constantly "babysit" the basic ingredients creation (circuits, gears, etc.) is far more obnoxious than saving time I could put to good use anyway. (I didn't, but if I'd wanted to, that's what comes to my mind.)

Also keep in mind if you're doing a "blind" run and not looking up a walkthrough or any strategies, you'll almost certainly craft things you didn't need to. I thought I was being pretty efficient and still only finished with one craft to spare, when I looked at other solutions I discovered how many tricks I'd missed.

I did it in 104. Had a few extra drills, it really speeds things up at the start.

OdinYggd wrote:Set up the mining drill on coal, to use the furnace as its output chest.

why use coal for fuel when there is (generally) plenty of wood and it's much faster to 'mine' (including mining speed per Mj).

it's not like you have anything better to do that first hour right?

Mendel wrote:Oil refinery... You must manual craft that one too and that is much later. Preferrably more than one. You cant manufacture one without assembler3 and you need blue bottles to research that and blue bottles need oil. Oil needs refinery. So there we are.

you can have blue science up and running long before running out of red/green science to research, giving your plenty of time to buffer the 75 needed to get assembler 3 with just 1 refinery.

yea, that makes sense. So its enough just make sure not to actually hit the limit of 111 before oil

Finished in 104 as well and it was an interesting challenge