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[Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:46 pm
by CherryKiss
OK, so I had a couple of ideas that became puzzles to me. I don't think either of these are something you'd actually want to use in a serious game, but the puzzles were fun to think about, so I thought I would share them here.

First puzzle: How do you force steam power on BEFORE solar? The idea is, you want full steam going before your power grid accepts any solar power. How do you manage this?

Second puzzle: How do you make steam power behave like solar? Try to force steam power to turn itself off at night, and then turn itself back on in the morning, behaving like solar panels!

Third puzzle: How do you force boilers to only load with a single piece of coal/fuel/wood? Only allow the loading of a new piece of fuel when the last one starts to burn in the boiler.

Are all three of these puzzles possible? I'm pretty sure the first one is possible, just have to see if it actually works in game....I'm not as sure yet about the other two! Show me your power skills, ace Factorio players!

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:03 pm
by ficolas
Totally need to try this :D.
I know how to do 1 and 2 but I dont think I can do 3...

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:00 pm
by Zourin
Concept solutions

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:11 pm
by ficolas
You cant base the 3rd one on timing, because what if the factory consumes less in some time?

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:36 pm
by ssilk
Tip: For the third you need to know, when a piece of coal is burned down.
:)

Ehm. And it works only with inserter stacksize = 1. :?
Edit: Perhaps I will find a solution...

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:59 am
by ssilk
Hehe. It works for every stacksize now. :geek:
Next Tip

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:31 am
by immibis
For the third one:
Spoiler

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:02 am
by ssilk
Next Tip

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:03 pm
by CherryKiss
heh heh I like that this has people thinking! I've no good ideas on the third one yet, but people definitely got the first two fast!

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:06 am
by immibis
I'm pretty sure I have the third one solved, but it depends on a bugfix in 0.9.2.

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:34 am
by ssilk
needed items
@ CherryKiss: yeah, the third one was hard. :) want to see such stuff in the game.

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:16 pm
by Marqee
is there a wat to turn off steam engines during daytime and power them on during night ?
mean automatically.

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:46 pm
by ssilk
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... ailable.3F

Replace the accu with a solar panel.

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:31 pm
by ssilk
Solution for number 3

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:16 am
by CherryKiss
oooh, very nice, ssilk!

A couple minor things I don't like:

- that this system requires to be started in a certain way, with the top inserter not getting access to fuel on the belt until after the bottom is full, and if it is not started correctly, it won't work right.
- the system requires readjustments if the fuel type gets changed
- the system assumes both boilers are on or off together

Other than that though, I really like the solution

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:53 am
by immibis
Puzzle 3 solution
This is built in 0.8.8, but requires a bugfix from 0.9.2 (which is not released yet) to be able to
remove items from the boiler using an inserter
. Until then, it still works if you manually
remove the wood from the boiler and place it on the conveyor belt
.

Unlike ssilk's, this does not need a "mirror" boiler and steam engine.

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:07 am
by ssilk
CherryKiss wrote: - that this system requires to be started in a certain way, with the top inserter not getting access to fuel on the belt until after the bottom is full, and if it is not started correctly, it won't work right.
- the system requires readjustments if the fuel type gets changed
- the system assumes both boilers are on or off together
1: Well, another smart inserter, which puts the coal to the upper only, if the chest is filled. But without defining the exact start and finish conditions this is a correct solution. :)
2: well, yes, that can't be solved like so. But the conditions don't say, that it may change. And this works with any electrical load and for much bigger power production, cause it is small. :) and guarantees that there is really only one coal in it. Any solution, which works by outputting from a boiler cannot guarantee that.
3: that's the point of this construction. there is no way to really find out the exact time, when a fuel was burned like so. The system reacts within 0.21 seconds and it just mirrors the movements to the other side.

This construction can be used for things like "insert also this, if I insert that".

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:29 pm
by MF-
I think immibis's solution is elegant.

If you needed to reduce latency, perhaps one could prepare alternating coal-wood input on a belt.
+ force the boiler-loading inserter to load them in order by "duplicating" it (ie. to have one inserter to move one item from belt to ground and then another inserter to move from ground to boiler.)

That could result in reaching the theoretical throughput maximum of 1/2, right?

Re: [Impractical Logic Puzzle] Bending Power to your Will!

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:30 pm
by CherryKiss
immibis, I am dazed and confused :D or at least I was...I had to read it twice, very slowly the second time, to get it :D

very neat though!