Pirating Factorio

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aussiegaylord
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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by aussiegaylord » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:28 am

you see people will always be out their pirating the game, even at first when the demo came out i must admit is suspected the dev's of this game to be foul play so my first stop was pirate bay to see if it was really a hoax ( like so many other promising games ). but when i had played it for only 15 minutes i fell in love and instantly got my friends in to it. now we all play. so piracy can be a good advertiser yet i disagree with people just constantly leeching updates. if you like the game, buy it. simple as that. it helps the dev's therefore helping the game therefore helping you in the long run.

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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by muzzy » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:10 am

Prior to seeing this thread, I believed there were basically two kind of views about what piracy is like and how copyrights should be used to encourage creation of new works.

The ideological piracy, which builds upon the idea that sharing is a good thing by itself, for both the consumers and the creators. It is good for creators because the true value of a digital good originates from familiarity, not from scarcity. The more there are people who know about the game, the more valuable it becomes. There are different views about how the original authors will be able to leverage this value, but typically the author of the original work is expected to continue selling his work as usual and the upright customers would pay as long as the price meets their expectations.

The thieving piracy, i.e. the idea that copying is stealing. The basic idea is that the exclusive right to distribute a work is what provides the value of a work, and the pirates are thieves because they have stolen this valuable right - the copyright owner no longer has it once the pirates start copying the good. Content creation can be expensive and carries risks, and the exclusive right to the distribution is granted to encourage risk taking. The idea originates from times of book printing when plagiarism (called piracy back then) was becoming a large problem and unauthorized versions of books were stealing sales from the originals.

However, it seems a third camp actually exists too. I'll call it "gift piracy".

The gift piracy is an idea of mutual gifts between content creator and the audience, the gifts from audience being voluntary. The idea is that once the author of a work has published the work, i.e. released it in any way to the public, he has given it away and loses his right to ask for anything in exchange. Nobody, not even the author himself, is allowed to sell the work anymore. If the author wishes to distribute his work after publishing it, he has to give the copies away for free. This type of piracy shares some traits of ideological piracy, but in gift piracy the author never has any right to receive compensation. In gift piracy there are no longer any customers since nobody gets any added value in exchange for money, and what used to be called "purchases" will now be just donations or gifts. The authors are supposed to feed themselves with the gifts from the people who enjoy their work.

This seems to be this is what malokin advocates. An ideology which doesn't allow authors to make decision about the torrent links on their own forums is an ideology which declares the author cannot demand money in exchange for the work, thus not allowed to sell it. Consequently, the paid copy becomes merely an alternative download with a donation. The kind of piracy malokin is talking about is gift piracy.

Malokin believes that the authors of Factorio have no right to profit from their work unless they do it through the gift piracy business model, and he proceeds to threaten to harm their business and to ruin their lives unless they adopt the gift piracy. I'm shocked and appalled by this illegal mafia style strategy to enforce an unusual and extreme political view, and equally horrified that the developers are just calling it "trolling" while caving in under the threats and letting the guy keep the torrent links in his signature after the threats.

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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by TGS » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:41 pm

muzzy wrote:Prior to seeing this thread, I believed there were basically two kind of views about what piracy is like and how copyrights should be used to encourage creation of new works.

The ideological piracy, which builds upon the idea that sharing is a good thing by itself, for both the consumers and the creators. It is good for creators because the true value of a digital good originates from familiarity, not from scarcity. The more there are people who know about the game, the more valuable it becomes. There are different views about how the original authors will be able to leverage this value, but typically the author of the original work is expected to continue selling his work as usual and the upright customers would pay as long as the price meets their expectations.

The thieving piracy, i.e. the idea that copying is stealing. The basic idea is that the exclusive right to distribute a work is what provides the value of a work, and the pirates are thieves because they have stolen this valuable right - the copyright owner no longer has it once the pirates start copying the good. Content creation can be expensive and carries risks, and the exclusive right to the distribution is granted to encourage risk taking. The idea originates from times of book printing when plagiarism (called piracy back then) was becoming a large problem and unauthorized versions of books were stealing sales from the originals.

However, it seems a third camp actually exists too. I'll call it "gift piracy".

The gift piracy is an idea of mutual gifts between content creator and the audience, the gifts from audience being voluntary. The idea is that once the author of a work has published the work, i.e. released it in any way to the public, he has given it away and loses his right to ask for anything in exchange. Nobody, not even the author himself, is allowed to sell the work anymore. If the author wishes to distribute his work after publishing it, he has to give the copies away for free. This type of piracy shares some traits of ideological piracy, but in gift piracy the author never has any right to receive compensation. In gift piracy there are no longer any customers since nobody gets any added value in exchange for money, and what used to be called "purchases" will now be just donations or gifts. The authors are supposed to feed themselves with the gifts from the people who enjoy their work.

This seems to be this is what malokin advocates. An ideology which doesn't allow authors to make decision about the torrent links on their own forums is an ideology which declares the author cannot demand money in exchange for the work, thus not allowed to sell it. Consequently, the paid copy becomes merely an alternative download with a donation. The kind of piracy malokin is talking about is gift piracy.

Malokin believes that the authors of Factorio have no right to profit from their work unless they do it through the gift piracy business model, and he proceeds to threaten to harm their business and to ruin their lives unless they adopt the gift piracy. I'm shocked and appalled by this illegal mafia style strategy to enforce an unusual and extreme political view, and equally horrified that the developers are just calling it "trolling" while caving in under the threats and letting the guy keep the torrent links in his signature after the threats.
A few points.

Firstly this thread kind of died and afaik molokin has kind of disappeared. I kind of wish people didn't keep resurrecting it.
Second, with that being said. The developers did not really call it trolling. People like myself did. However you have to keep in mind that not everything he was doing was trolling. The initial 'spark' was trolling. The attitude is trolling. His sense of abrasive and offensive humour in combination with the extreme views is trolling. Now I say this mainly because it fits the definition of modern 'trolling'. It's inflammatory and intended to start an uproar and basically cause a defense. Now keep in mind I said cause a defense as opposed to it being offensive. Being offensive outright isn't trolling, that's just being an ass.

Thirdly, Now in the beginning I wasn't sure that he was trolling. But I suspected it was... Now I wasn't intending to feed the troll as it were. That was not my objective or anything like that. My objective was to make my opinion of the blatant disregard and disrespect for the devs known. I mean they have created an amazing game and they didn't deserve that. But in the end it sparked some interesting dialogue and debate. However it also became apparent that while molokin had a very intriguing view point, he was also very trollish. As many 'pirates' are. It kind of goes with their nature of rebellion and anti-authority. It really hails from the idea of freedom of expression giving them the right to do whatever the hell they want even if it impedes on someone elses freedoms. Now back on topic. The issue here is that imo piracy IS something that needs to be discussed and debated and it is healthy for all sides to get their opinion in, provided people are willing and open to the other peoples points of view. There simply is no "right answer" to this because it's a matter of opinion.

I think at the end of the day this forum is primarily for the people who are interested in Factorio. I really hope that the majority of people who come here respect the devs, respect the work they have done and continue to do and are willing to purchase the game as well as recommend that their friends purchase the game as well. Regardless of whether or not this is against your ethos or not you should still seek to promote the game legitimately. Not 'legally' but legitimately. By legitimate I mean in accordance with the will of the developers. For I don't believe that they are bending to the pressure of society or any 'old world' customs of goods and services. They've created something and I would like to hope that most people feel that they should be paid for it.

I think we did reach one conclusion though. No one is against people downloading the torrented copy of the game so they can 'demo' it properly. Provided they are willing to buy the game after if they enjoy it.

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