Factorio Forums

Hand crafting does contradict the main theme of the game. That's a bad thing.

You can freely set up a major supply chain and use logistic slots to fill up on anything. It renders hand crafting obsolete.

Didn't have quite enough time to post lately, but I'll take my time to vote a "Nope" on this matter. xD

The crafting speed is the major reason as to why one has to automate everything... reducing the crafting time would only lead to more pocket crafting, which is not the purpose of the game.

If at all there should be even more hardcore crafting times for certain things and a lot of other things even uncraftable by hand.

Klonan wrote: For part of the reason my mod has over 200 downloads, some people like faster crafting speed research. Are you saying they are wrong in their belief? That they are somehow sullying the idea of the game by using such a bad and disgraceful mod, and to play the game in a style that suits them?

And this is amazing and very clever decision that devs have chosen: they created a game very mod-friendly so anyone can shift the gameplay towards his needs. As long as crafting speed research (and many other gameplay-changing mods) is an option it's fine.

Maybe a idea could be do faster crafting at the start when the game is more tedious until you research the blue assembly and then let normal speed, or set it as opttion at the game setup

Also A problem i found on trying total automation games is some items cant be automated when they are researched, for examble Refinery ask for yellow machine but you need the oil to do the yellow machine, a coal machine can be good for the start for that kind of plays

I am the one that started the thread about player crafting speed research(see link at beginning of thread)
I agree with most everyone here that the crafting speed should not be increased. Having research to slightly increase the crafting speed is something different.
(I didn't vote, because there is no option that reflects my opinion)

I'd say add research after power armor and give ability to fit production equipment into it to craft faster. And maybe a few leves of that crafting equipment speed. Makes for interesting dilema - roboports, ccrafting equipment, shields, generators - everything wants power, but those fusion generators are sooo big...
Best part about it - it's optional.

Maybe in that line, so the early modular armor has an advantage of being actually used, or leave it to the end game. In any case, there is a rebalance comming on the fighting and probably is going to touch on the power armor. So you could tie this idea in neatly in if it's to your liking.

Klonan wrote: For part of the reason my mod has over 200 downloads, some people like faster crafting speed research. Are you saying they are wrong in their belief? That they are somehow sullying the idea of the game by using such a bad and disgraceful mod, and to play the game in a style that suits them?

200 out of 100k is not very much if you ask me. Relevant would be e.g. comparison with number of downloads of Marathon or No Hand Crafting mod. That would be "vote with feet" similar to the poll in this topic.
And eventually even if 90k wanted to have e.g. instant crafting and developers were conceptually opposed to it because this is game about automation, not game about hand crafting, then it would be the decision of the developers.

To be clear, I think wanting faster/slower crafting is legitimate feedback/suggestion, especially if you elaborate the gameplay reasons, but the stances in this topic were kind of more militant/dogmatic than that. If you follow to the original thread linked from OP, the debate is quite a lot better funded.

voyta wrote: 200 out of 100k is not very much if you ask me. Relevant would be e.g. comparison with number of downloads of Marathon or No Hand Crafting mod.

Which points out something I find a little worrying about a semi-official poll like this one. Whatever the results, it's a small sampling (45 votes as I write this) of the player base. We can hope that it's somehow representative of the larger group, but there's no guarantee that it is. It'd be very easy for a poll thread like this to be misleading compared to what players actually feel. Self-selecting web polls are always a problem, because they're filtered down to only the people who saw the poll, opened it, and chose to vote.

Gus_Smedstad wrote:

voyta wrote: 200 out of 100k is not very much if you ask me. Relevant would be e.g. comparison with number of downloads of Marathon or No Hand Crafting mod.

Which points out something I find a little worrying about a semi-official poll like this one. Whatever the results, it's a small sampling (45 votes as I write this) of the player base. We can hope that it's somehow representative of the larger group, but there's no guarantee that it is. It'd be very easy for a poll thread like this to be misleading compared to what players actually feel. Self-selecting web polls are always a problem, because they're filtered down to only the people who saw the poll, opened it, and chose to vote.

Other boards disallow polls on the feature request section because popularity (which is the only thing the poll samples) is no basis on whether a feature should get in. Devs have the final word always.

This already exists as a mod, and adds to the game. It lets you craft faster later in the game, but is no replacement for a proper factory setup.

I was actually trying to made a modular armor equipment item to boost crafting and mining speed, but there was no way to change those values for a single player.

I am one of the people that download the faster hand crafting mod, and I'm one of the people that also like challenge, but I think that the vanilla game could very much use this concept. Who is to say that you should gain insane bonus with this at early levels? Who is to say that even you could research this before blue science?

The point is that one does not exactly know what it's going to cost to build a setup before actually building it. The focus is still on the building aspect, but if you are building something that's not close to your base, and you forgot some stuff, just craft it by hand. IF it takes ages, like you built 15 chemical plants, but you needed like 20-30. That's the most common thing that happens to me. It's not worth it to go back to the base, and it's not worth it to build by hand, because it takes ages.

For the ultra late/late game, I still think that the 4th transportation method is what's actually needed. Insane fast rocket delivery system. But for the mid/late game, I tend not to build stuff SO FAR away, since I don't have the resources to do so, so I normally go back to grab more machines.

Now when I read that I think I should have added a poll-option like

SHiRKiT wrote:I am one of the people that download the faster hand crafting mod, and I'm one of the people that also like challenge, but I think that the vanilla game could very much use this concept. Who is to say that you should gain insane bonus with this at early levels? Who is to say that even you could research this before blue science?

The point is that one does not exactly know what it's going to cost to build a setup before actually building it. The focus is still on the building aspect, but if you are building something that's not close to your base, and you forgot some stuff, just craft it by hand. IF it takes ages, like you built 15 chemical plants, but you needed like 20-30. That's the most common thing that happens to me. It's not worth it to go back to the base, and it's not worth it to build by hand, because it takes ages.

For the ultra late/late game, I still think that the 4th transportation method is what's actually needed. Insane fast rocket delivery system. But for the mid/late game, I tend not to build stuff SO FAR away, since I don't have the resources to do so, so I normally go back to grab more machines.

Exactly where I stand.

ssilk wrote:Now when I read that I think I should have added a poll-option like

Code: Select all

Maybe, if the cost vs. fun is very well balanced (high cost, not an early-game option).

No...
It doesn't matter how many options you put in. There will always be calls that a poll is either biased, self-serving or whatever. The best way is to give the players LESS options. ie, "yes, no, no opinion" and let the posts in the thread detail their reasoning. There just is no way in a million years you'll be able to cater to all the different opinions, so it's probably better to not even try

I feel completely the opposite way. I would welcome if the hand crafting was discarded all together, and the early game was bridged by some crafting bench/item/assembler salvaged from the crashed ship.

Sure. Create a campaign for it. Call it easy mode or learner mode.

Tbh, I feel an option for faster manual crafting in Factorio feels like an autopilot option in a racing game, or an auto-combat in a fighting game.

torham wrote:I feel completely the opposite way. I would welcome if the hand crafting was discarded all together, and the early game was bridged by some crafting bench/item/assembler salvaged from the crashed ship.

it already exists as a simple mod http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/no-hand-crafting

Koub wrote:Tbh, I feel an option for faster manual crafting in Factorio feels like an autopilot option in a racing game, or an auto-combat in a fighting game.

In my view, it's a convenience feature. You will best see that when you force yourself to not hand-craft anything.

I tried vanilla campaign doing the minimal amount of hand-crafts possible, and in early game you result to repurposing single factory 20 times over before having another factory at hand. In the late game you ten "have to" set up a lot of factories to craft a single item and then forget/disassemble them (you e.g. want single item from the recipes in military category) and for many buildings you also create one batch and then never need more.
It was a nice experience, but quite a lot of hassle for me to want to repeat it.

I like how it is now. I just got to the point where i need to make blue science stuff. I stopped on that to really see everything that can be made with green science. I am used making everything in my pocket, so now the fact that it takes me 8+ seconds to make stuff has given me the incentive to and automate my production of other products.

Therefore, as it stands, the game gives you a grave period where you can build stuff in your pocket. But eventually rewards you for automating stuff and having shipped you via robots.