Factorio Forums

Hi,

I need some input from the community on something. I am in the process of finalizing the concept and details of a Strategy Guide for the game. I can't really go into more details at this point, but throughout this process I have talked to some people (Factorio devs included) about what type of information should be in this guide and there seems to be two different opinions or ideas for what type of content it should contain. But what really matters is what the community thinks, seeing as the guide is for you!

So what I would like from you all is to think about when you were new to the game, or if you are new to the game currently, then think about what type of information and concepts you would be looking for or find helpful in a guide/users manual for the game. I would prefer if you stick to choosing one of the two concepts listed below, or just state that you would like something in the middle of the two. I would prefer it this way because it will make it a lot easier for me, rather than if there were just 100 different ideas/opinions to choose from. Please include any other details or thoughts/explanations as to why you would like it the way you chose.

Personally I am probably more of the second opinion just based on my experience learning the game from when I was a new player, and my observations of questions asked on the Forums, the Reddit and comments on my and other people's YT videos. So without further ado, here are the two concepts that have arisen:

First Opinion:
- That the guide should be almost entirely just about covering the basic concepts of the game, rather than going over each specific stage or subject in the game. Examples of the type of content for this idea are as follows (obviously this isn't everything that would be covered, but this approach would be much more broad and not so in-depth for each individual thing);
- About The Game (what the game is about and the main concepts that will take place in the game)
- Belt and Inserter Mechanics (ie how they work, tricks for doing things with them, their behavior etc)
- Mining (how the process of mining works, both manual and automated)
- Basic Automation (assemblers and smelting and how it all works)
- Science (just an explanation of what science is and how it works, rather than detailed info on each science pack and setups for each).
- Pollution (how it works and spreads etc)
- Trains (simple explanation of why to use trains in the first place, explain signals and chain signals, show simple and advanced junction solutions etc)
- Liquids (explanation of liquid behavior and such)
- Logistics System (explanation of how it works etc)
- Circuit Network (explanation, maybe examples)
- Attacking enemies and defending from Enemies

Second Opinion:
- Pretty much opposite of the first opinion or concept. The idea here is that each main stage of "milestone" of the game would be covered, along with some of the concepts shown above. So an example of what this would like is as follows;
Early Game Stuff;
- About The Game (same as above)
- Initial Observations (going over the process of spawning in for the first time, and the importance of taking in your surroundings, like how close enemies are and what resources are available etc).
- Collecting Resources (the process of collecting resources in the "burner stage")
- Setting up Power (explanation of why power is necessary and how it works. Then explanation of how to actually set it up and examples of setups and the ratio(s) for that)
- Belt & Inserter Mechanics (same as above)
- Automating Smelting (explanation of why to automate the process of smelting resources, and examples of how to do it etc)
- Red Science (telling the importance of automating each science pack, and explanation of the fact there are 4 types each one more complicated etc. Showing examples of setups for Red Science, and other random info etc)
- Green Science (similar to Red Science, but for Green Science)
- Steel Production
Mid Game Stuff;
- Engine Units (Explanation of what engine units are used for and that it is good to automate at least a few)
- Solar Panels (explain how solar panels work and show setups for them etc)
- Basic Oil Processing (explanation of oil and how liquids work, and explanation of setting it all up with examples, and what each product is used for etc)
- Laser Turrets (How laser turrets work and their advantages and disadvantages)
- Trains (same type of thing as in the first opinion)


Alrighty so that is obviously not everything, but is hopefully a good enough example to show the differences between the two ideas. So to summarize, the first opinion/concept is for it to be much more broad and just cover the main concepts not the specific entities or stages in the game. Whereas the second opinion focuses more on the individual entities or stages of the game and automation process of the major items etc and includes some of the main concepts too (such as belt and inserter mechanics etc), but just goes much more in depth.
So first of all, thank you for reading this and for giving your perspective and feedback if you choose to do so. If you have any questions about any of it or to further clarify things, definitely ask.
I feel like something like this can help the community, new players, and the content of Factorio a lot, but I want to do it in a way that people (primarily new players, but also more experienced ones as well) will find helpful and informative.

As a visual learner, I think pictures of working factories would be very useful.

But to avoid being too much of a spoiler, use horribly inefficient designs.*

*Any of Xterminator's designs should be fine.

Well... Opinion one totally sounds like what a tutorial should be while opinion two sounds like what a strategy guide should be.

Which do we need ?
Now does Factorio needs a tutorial or a strategy guide ? I would personally say both. A tutorial would ideally be created by the devs and included in game. But this game is in alpha and the devs have other much more urgent things to do. Not to mention that any tutorial would need to be updated every time a major update happen. I guess a tutorial is best handled by the community while the game is still in development.

As for "pro tips", great designs, data crunching and effective strategies... this entire forum is full of those. Players are posting stuff as they are discovered. That being said, it could be hard for a new player to find something specific in this ocean of chaotic and sometime contradictory information. A strategy guide covering the most well known and time tested designs/strategies about every aspect of the game could be nice. The guide should allow a new player to catch up to veteran players and allow them to follow along in forum threads and understand how the newest design works and why is it better than others.

The truth of the matter is that I don't care either way. But since you are calling this a "strategy guide", I'm guessing that making an actual strategy guide is better. Otherwise it should be renamed to tutorial.

Edit: Post edited for spelling, grammar and typos.

Zhab wrote: Now does Factorio needs a tutorial or a strategy guide ? I would personally say both.

I agree with both your definitions of the terms, and the need for both. There's a lot of basic information for new players that would merit a Civilization-1 style 300+ page manual, with illustrations. There's also a lot of information about design patterns, from belt tricks such as balancing and distributing, to the common 3:2 cable:electronics assembler setup, to the merits of rail intersections vs. rotaries.

Thank you so much for the responses so far guys! I call it a Strategy Guide, but in mind I think it would be a bit of both.
I agree that both type of things (tutorial and strategy guide) are needed. So my idea so far has been to find a good middle ground.
For example... To include simple things like how Belts and Inserters work (like how inserters always place on far side, and how Belts have 2 lanes that can have different resources on each etc), and a basic explanation of science and how it works, but to also show setups for science and smelting etc like you might find in a Strategy Guide.

Essentially I wouldn't want it to be like a "hold your hand" type of tutorial for the whole thing, but at the same time have it be friendly and helpful to people starting the game. Based on what you guys have said, I think I am mostly headed in the right direction, with perhaps a few changes needed. For example, I don't think something like automating Engine Units really needs to be covered because even for a newer player it is pretty self explanatory, and I personally feel that a lot of the fun of the game comes from figuring that type of stuff out for yourself.

But on the hand, I think going over the basics of how assembling machines and Belts/Inserters work is important in order for the more complicated things (like science setups etc) to make sense.
My goal with this guide is to create something that can help new players with questions they might have or problems they run into, while at the same time being a valuable resource for even fairly experienced players.

Again thank you for your input, it has helped a lot already. Definitely would like to hear more responses as well though!
Let me know if you have any further thoughts on what I said above.

IMHO, the first option is what the wiki is for.

I think a strategy guide would then tell you how to use the information from "first option" to be successful.

Maybe I'm just thinking in black & white, but I guess that a middle-ground is problematic when it comes to Tutorials/Strategy guides.

Since currently Factorio lacks both an official Tutorial and a real Strategy guide it might be a tempting idea to fuse the aspects of both in one thing but in the long run it would be better to seperate those things as Zhab made it perfectly clear why.

- Tutorial = How to play the game in its basics but leave most of the experience of uncovering its secrets to the player.
- Strategy Guide = How to master the game at costs of spoiling the experience and/or showing how to go beyond that by breaking the game in the most efficient ways on a fundamental level.

It's also because most people are either one or the other type of player.

There are several types of strategy guides though... there are the ones that concentrate on how to actually beat the game from the beginning to the end and there are ones that take the game apart in its fundamental ways by being data-driven min/maxer hells where there is no page without like a bazillion of spreadsheets showing the ups/downs of everything.

If you are really planning on doing a strategy guide it is more the choice of if you just want to show how to get from the first crafted pickaxe to finally launching the rocket in a basic manner...
-OR-
... if you actually want to concentrate on showing ways on how to build something in the most efficient ways based on deeper math/knowledge/experience with the game mechanics.

For the first one you will need to explain some of the basic features along the way as they become relevant of course because there may be newbies using it as a reference but there's no need to explain each and every game mechanic in detail because its about getting to the end of the game alive and mostly nothing more.

For the second you don't need to explain jack about the basics because it is targeted towards people who already know how to beat the game and they are interested in the numbercrunching stuff or other emperical findings. It's more like a collection of spreadsheets and layouts than actually how to play the game.



On a side note... why not make it like the Home Improvement SNES game back in the 90ies?



Yeah, that was the actual manual. No kidding.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but you may not be the best man for the #2 option, Xterminator. I recall a recent post on the /r/ where you made the bold claim that you had mastered all the 0.11 mechanics, but you just recently figured out how to make the 3:2 circuit build work correctly. This is why I am opposed to any guide that claims "this is the best way to do it" because there is no best way to do it. Basic tutorials should, in my opinion, explain all the gui and keyboard shortcuts... and that's about it. Therefore, #1 is the best option, imho. Maybe some things like a functional boiler setup, advice on limiting the number of radars, pros/cons of direct insertion, etc.

Most of the number crunching you can do for building ratios gets thrown out the window once you start using productivity modules. I'm gonna agree with

MeduSalem wrote:On a side note... why not make it like the Home Improvement SNES game back in the 90ies?

realmen

Yeah, that was the actual manual. No kidding.

MadZuri wrote:I don't mean to rain on your parade, but you may not be the best man for the #2 option, Xterminator. I recall a recent post on the /r/ where you made the bold claim that you had mastered all the 0.11 mechanics, but you just recently figured out how to make the 3:2 circuit build work correctly. This is why I am opposed to any guide that claims "this is the best way to do it" because there is no best way to do it. Basic tutorials should, in my opinion, explain all the gui and keyboard shortcuts... and that's about it. Therefore, #1 is the best option, imho. Maybe some things like a functional boiler setup, advice on limiting the number of radars, pros/cons of direct insertion, etc.

Well the point is not to say that "this is the best way to do it" but rather "this is an efficient time tested way to do it" and then carry on saying "but many players prefer this way because...".

Zhab wrote:

MadZuri wrote:I don't mean to rain on your parade, but you may not be the best man for the #2 option, Xterminator. I recall a recent post on the /r/ where you made the bold claim that you had mastered all the 0.11 mechanics, but you just recently figured out how to make the 3:2 circuit build work correctly. This is why I am opposed to any guide that claims "this is the best way to do it" because there is no best way to do it. Basic tutorials should, in my opinion, explain all the gui and keyboard shortcuts... and that's about it. Therefore, #1 is the best option, imho. Maybe some things like a functional boiler setup, advice on limiting the number of radars, pros/cons of direct insertion, etc.

Well the point is not to say that "this is the best to do it" but rather "this is an efficient time tested way to do it" and the carry on saying "but many players prefer this way because...".

Exactly this. My goal with this isn't to make a guide that goes over the 100% best efficient way to do things, because honestly I don't know what that is for each and every thing, and don't really care. You don't have to build perfectly efficient or make the absolute perfect design in order to have fun in the game or even know how to play it.
So yes I am not the person to be doing a guide that explains the exact perfect way to each thing. However I do know how the game works and know how to play it quite well in a general sense.

This guide would be for newer players or even moderately experienced players to help them learn how the game works and the mechanics of things, and give some examples of how to set things up (even if they aren't 100% perfect).

Also in relation to what you about my Reddit post, that is not what I said. I said I know pretty much everything about the game, I didn't say I can play the game perfectly. And honestly, the circuit build I have done up until this point worked fine, it just didn't work 100% efficiently, which again is not needed in order to play the game, or even help other people learn the game.

Did this ever get off the ground?

As a new player excited about this game, and a long-time strategy/sim gamer, I would find a guide of 'cool builds, see if you can do it better' type of forum/guide separated by build type. Maybe this already exists and I just haven't found it yet (too busy playing this awesome game!)...

Both opinions to me have little to do with a strategy guide.

A strategy is a way of playing to achieve something. Small stack poker playing is a strategy, big stack poker is a strategy. Explaining all the possible hands is explaining poker.

Explaining a low pollution setup would be a strategy although the purpose elude me, when you can juts put down 3 laser turrets on every corner and call it save.

RenderMan wrote:Did this ever get off the ground?

As a new player excited about this game, and a long-time strategy/sim gamer, I would find a guide of 'cool builds, see if you can do it better' type of forum/guide separated by build type. Maybe this already exists and I just haven't found it yet (too busy playing this awesome game!)...

Yeah I thought to that, but this is hopeless work, human cannot compete with it, cause there is so much.
Just read the Show your Creations and Gameplay Help board for a month and you might understand what I mean.

My idea about this is, that there is a blueprint portal (as mod-portal (or a map portal - I see that all probably just as one kind of portal)), where players can upload their creations and sort it into categories and other players can download it and make some comments or ratings.

RenderMan wrote:Did this ever get off the ground?

Xterminator finished the guide (around 100 pages) and released it as PDF on http://www.factorioguide.com in December 2015 for a price of about 4€. See Friday Facts #116 - Strategy Guide

The Factorio devs bought the guide from him in February 2016 and made it into a free online guide.

Friday Facts #127 - Steam Status III: Thank You wrote:The guide should be considered to be very much a work in progress. There are many things that we plan to improve - phrasing, screenshots, general consistency. However we feel it could be of a good value for new players in the current state. That is why we pushed to have it ready for Steam release.

Thank you Xterminator for your work, as a new player I found this guide helpful. Shoutout to the devs for making this resource accessible to all.

RealityCh3ck wrote:Thank you Xterminator for your work, as a new player I found this guide helpful. Shoutout to the devs for making this resource accessible to all.

I'm very glad it helped you out! I appreciate you taking the time to come on here post!