Factorio Forums

Hello,
I now have fulgora finished so far that I get the science packs. I built a plant that should deliver ~2 packs per second.
But I don't get nearly enough holmium for the plant to produce it. The rate at which it is sieved out of the scrap is very, very low. And I'm already destroying 90% of the rest of the stuff that comes out of the scrap because there's not enough demand for it without holmium.

Am I doing something wrong, is there an upgrade, or is that how it's supposed to be so you get so little?

Is there a better way to destroy things? I throw everthing into the recycler to get rid of them, but that's a lot of steps to destroy them completely.

I think you defined well the Fulgora Problem which is to find what to do with the rest of the scrap you dont need because you are mostly interested in holmium. Getting the plant and silo and to deliver 2 pack per second would be another one you got already from what i understand.

You can try using the recycler for getting higher quality material instead of destroying it, to use for equipment of platform.

You can make some basic science pack and ship them to Nauvis to reduce the drain of your ore patch in Nauvis.

You can prepare some spaceship parts ?

You can try to put things in chest unprotected against lightning x) or downgrade them to nothingness.

You have an upgrade for "scrap recycling productivity" which gives you more of everything like holmium but also the other things, so that may not help, you have to keep the production and recycling balanced , similar to power production and consumption somehow. If you research too much, then you need to upgrade the recycling part, or it would jam.

OK thanks. I did not feel right what i was doing. i upscaled everything now with 40 recyclers in the first step i', now at 2.6 Science Packs / second.
That should be enough for a start. Some cleanup and then it's Time to hit the 3rd planet after i got the mech suite.
I will start to look into quality and optimizing when i'm done with gleba.

Ah well. I went to Fulgora yesterday evening. And obviously ran into the same "issues". xD

(First other planet I decided to settle on, albeit I have landed on Vulcanus a 3 days ago first in a test space launch where I first tested whether my platform is "ready" to deal with asteroids).

Anyway, I also noticed the ridiculous amount of byproducts to sieve for Holmium. Most notoriously I don't know what to do with all the Iron Gears & Steel. The other stuff I can mostly deal with (or already sent into recyclers to get rid of it in case of the stone/concrete & solid fuel).

In some ways I don't know what kind of "production chain" the devs balanced the amount of products you get from the scrap. I don't know what they "intended" for us to do there in terms of production to make use of it. I mean damn, there is so much stuff and so little of the thing you are actually interested in. I have no problems to recycle it until the excess is gone to keep the Holmium-sieve going but I would obviously prefer to do something with it. ^^


The funny part however is... I wanted to start producing better equipment or other things to ship to Nauvis.


But that falls short because I currently actually struggle much more to keep up with power production. After I set up some of the electromagnetic plants and put some Productivity modules in them (to make the most out of the holmium)... it drains the power so fast that I can barely keep up making more accumulators. Half of the island I decided to settle on is already full with an array of accumulators (and I shipped in more from Nauvis) and it is still not enough.

And there is literally no other way to make power. Solar doesn't work. And you have no natural water; so Steam/Nuclear is out too. The little water you get from the ice is better spent on the production chains rather than venting it out through a steam turbine.

I know with higher quality accumulators it might get somewhat more reasonable to store the electricity from the storms, and maybe using efficiency modules in beacons located at the electromagnetic plants it might become better...


... but currently I am totally thinking of actually shipping the electromagnetic plants & Holmium ore to Nauvis and do the production in a less "power restricted"-environment, instead of shipping the finished electromagnetic science packs. xD

It would mathematically even be more efficient to do that because if one boosts the whole Holmium chain with Productivity modules then because of the cascading effect you get more than 2x the science packs out of it or something the likes.

So what this means is in terms of rocket launches shipping the Holmium ore is actually more efficient than launching the science packs. With the benefit that you can actually produce other holmium-based stuff on other planets as well in case you need/want to.

At least that is my theory. I don't know yet whether you can actually craft electromagnetic science packs or anything holmium-based on other planets. At least I already noticed that you cannot make Electromagnetic plants anywhere else except on Fulgora. So you totally need to craft the electromagnetic plants on Fulgora and ship them elsewhere.


Anyway if I woud ship the holmium ore, then even less of the scrap byproducts will be used because it would only be a bare-bone outpost to sieve for holmium ore. ^^

I mean I could make a bazillion Storage chests and store all the crap for "later" and eventually when I have the best equipment come back and process through it all. If one ever gets that far. xD

So, after a day of playing purely on Fulgora... I can say it is impossible to locally craft away all the holmium plates into science packs just on Fulgora.


I mean sure, one is also supposed to use the plates in other recipes; like electromagnetic plants themselves, quality modules, etc.


But if one would just purely try to maximize Electromagnetic Science Pack production (which I tried) then it is impossible to use it all.

I put Productivity modules in every step of the chain to maximize the gain and yet I am facing a bottleneck:

The bottleneck, funnily is not the Holmium. Because even though I tried to craft away as fast as possible I have a full chest of holmium plates.

The bottleneck actually is... Battery production; or better said... you cannot get enough sulfuric acid because there is simply not enough water to crack enough heavy oil into petroleum & sulfur & sulfiric acid to make more batteries which you need because the ones from the scrap are not enough. That is unless you would ship more from Nauvis. ^^

It is so funny really. You are surrounded by a sea of heavy oil and it is pretty much useless because for cracking you need water and there is almost none.


With other words... one is better off to actually ship the holmium ore to Nauvis or whatever and craft the science packs there.

Which kinda underlines the thought I already had earlier.

Welp, kinda a little bit annoying because I put up all the infrastructure on Fulgora to find out it is not scalable there. Now I have to ship the EM plants to nauvis and see what can be done there. xD


[edit]

LOL. One cannot craft Electromagnetic Science Packs anywhere else BUT on Fulgora. xD

Wonderful. So the idea of shipping the holmium then just died too. ^^

Welp; guess I will try to import Batteries from nauvis then.

MeduSalem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:54 am Welp; guess I will try to import Batteries from nauvis then.

It's an interesting development x) I had missed the previous episode.

I think it's funny that you try to seek to know "what have devs planned for us" like in terms of production chains for the ratios coming from scrap, when one can imagine th devs thinking the same, "what will the player do in Fulgora and how much scrap ratio should we give them".

You unlock the recycler in Fulgora, and quality module of high tier require component made of holmium, to me this scream "quality" or void because you are given the tool to manage the bazillion storage chest that happens to grow on Fulgoras accross the internet.

If you need "water" you can i think get it from space ice, after all Fulgora is quite far from the sun, the asteroid there must have more ice, at least judging by the factoriopedia.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:52 am It's an interesting development x) I had missed the previous episode.

I think it's funny that you try to seek to know "what have devs planned for us" like in terms of production chains for the ratios coming from scrap, when one can imagine th devs thinking the same, "what will the player do in Fulgora and how much scrap ratio should we give them".

You unlock the recycler in Fulgora, and quality module of high tier require component made of holmium, to me this scream "quality" or void because you are given the tool to manage the bazillion storage chest that happens to grow on Fulgoras accross the internet.

Well, they must have been playing with it for quite a long time. So I figure they have a map where they tuned that around a specific play pattern. ^^

I will likely never find exactly what they were doing but it is not too bad either.

Currently I am not even trashing aaaas much. Mostly the stone and the solid fuel. A little excess copper and iron gear wheels.

But everything else I use completely. Mostly I am building modules currently and recycle them until they are rare quality. What a waste. xD

mmmPI wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:52 am If you need "water" you can i think get it from space ice, after all Fulgora is quite far from the sun, the asteroid there must have more ice, at least judging by the factoriopedia.

I will try that; but I think it might still not be very scalable.

MeduSalem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:06 am Well, they must have been playing with it for quite a long time. So I figure they have a map where they tuned that around a specific play pattern. ^^

I don't think devs have all the same play pattern, some may be more into the train world and megabase and see fulgora as shipping outpost for Nauvis, and do not find the same ratios required as others dev that would be more into combinator contraptions and automated mutli crafter/recycler.

Also at some point you have expanded so much your base is finished, it only produces science, your machine can't handle expansion anymore, is it for those that you plan the ratios ? when say 90% of the game you need other ratios because you are still building the factory and increase the quality of everybuilding , which require different ratios ?

I wouldn't loose to much time trying to seek the perfect ratio, but rather making sure it can be flexible

MeduSalem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:06 am But everything else I use completely. Mostly I am building modules currently and recycle them until they are rare quality. What a waste. xD

a waste of what ? time ? ressources ? space ? I am more than willing to trade ressources for space in Fulgora, or resources for time x). Ressources are like the problem they are too many, if can void twice as much, to get something just 50% faster, it still seem worthy most of the time as extracting scrap is easier than dealing with the byproducts.

mmmPI wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:52 am I will try that; but I think it might still not be very scalable.

Well i hope it is very scalable because to me it look like exactly the same process used for making space science. As this one require iron, carbon and ice, from space, and well ,if you are into thinking how the dev thinks, you must have anticipated that space science is scalable or must be , so there must be a way to get ice in quantity in orbit or something. I suppose x)

Can you drop ice from orbit to get water?

Yes, you can drop ice from orbit and ice is so easy to make up there.

I must be the dumbest one here, because I couldn't even figure out the offshore pump. It was my first planet, but still -_-

I think looking for a good starting point is key there. I got an island with a good size and around 260k scrap, after resettling two times.
That got me startet and i only have around 20% covered in accumulators (basic). with the whole production + recycling chain on the island. After that i startet to import from the other islands to get more scrap by train. Thank god i have the big mining drills, they do help a lot.

In search for holmium i get way to many of every product, so i don't need to import anything. Producing modules with the byproducts is a good way i think. I will try to setup a good module production facility, for high quality, when i'm done with the other planets.

There are no enemy's on the planet so keep going till you find a good spot would be my number one tip.

A way to actually destroy items would be great. I this is a thing i probable would add for future runs as mod.

Sphinx wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:10 pm I think looking for a good starting point is key there. I got an island with a good size and around 260k scrap, after resettling two times.
That got me startet and i only have around 20% covered in accumulators (basic). with the whole production + recycling chain on the island. After that i startet to import from the other islands to get more scrap by train. Thank god i have the big mining drills, they do help a lot.

There are no enemy's on the planet so keep going till you find a good spot would be my number one tip.

A way to actually destroy items would be great. I this is a thing i probable would add for future runs as mod.

Recyclers destroy items - what other way you would want to add?

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:12 pm Recyclers destroy items - what other way you would want to add?

A more direct way. There is a 25% chance i get a stone back when recycling a stone. It's not the biggest problem in the world to rout it around and back to the recycler. But i find it a bit annoying when i just want to get rid of something. I would like a system like with the flair stack mod, just burn it up.

Sphinx wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:16 pm

orzelek wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:12 pm Recyclers destroy items - what other way you would want to add?

A more direct way. There is a 25% chance i get a stone back when recycling a stone. It's not the biggest problem in the world to rout it around and back to the recycler. But i find it a bit annoying when i just want to get rid of something. I would like a system like with the flair stack mod, just burn it up.

I am all for it! Its a little bit strange that the entity to throw things away that way is called recycler!

MeduSalem wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 2:56 pm But that falls short because I currently actually struggle much more to keep up with power production. After I set up some of the electromagnetic plants and put some Productivity modules in them (to make the most out of the holmium)... it drains the power so fast that I can barely keep up making more accumulators. Half of the island I decided to settle on is already full with an array of accumulators (and I shipped in more from Nauvis) and it is still not enough.

You're going to have to set up production on other islands filled with accumulators. Then ship in the products you need (probably just holmium) via trains. Luckily, you get tons of batteries from scrap.

smew wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:14 pm
You're going to have to set up production on other islands filled with accumulators. Then ship in the products you need (probably just holmium) via trains. Luckily, you get tons of batteries from scrap.

Yea, I am past the energy problem already. For the electromagnetic science production you need to craft accumulators anyway; so I put Quality modules in the Accumulator assemblers.

So i got like a couple thousand Q2 and also lots of Q3 accumulators as side products. And I replaced all the Q1 accumulators already with at least Q2. And I am already in the phase of replacing the Q2 with Q3s because I don't even need that many Q2s either.

Solved the problem eventually. ^^


Currently I am facing other issues on Fulgora. But they have to wait because yesterday I settled on Vulcanus and I am still not ready to leave there (even though I can already because I am sending Metallurgy science packs back to Nauvis already as well). And even with remote stuff I can only work on so much at once. xD