Khagan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:26 am
mmmPI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:16 am
placing a PM3 module in an assembly 3 producing green circuit is more than 9 times better than placing it on a mining drill.
Much more than 9 times. Firstly, you can straightforwardly get much better value from the PMs in the assemblers by interleaving with beacons; if you try to do that with miners you end up with gaps in coverage of the ore patch. Secondly, the module bonus is only additive with the tech productivity bonus for mining, but the speed hit from the modules scales all the production down. Once you have a good few levels of mining tech, this is a very bad deal.
The payback time for high-level PMs in miners is far too long to be worth it: there are always going to be better things to do with those resources. Most obviously, you can use them to expand or improve your science factory and speed up the rate at which you are improving your mining tech. Three extra levels is like 3 free PM3s in every single mining drill, but without the slowdown, or the energy cost, or the extra pollution.
Placing PM3 modules in an assembly 3 producing green circuit might be 9 times better. But placing PM3 modules in an assembly 3 AND placing PM3 modules in miners and adding beacons is then 18 times better. But this was always just a thought experiment. I always said for real you place the modules at the top of the pyramid first.
"is far too long"? I don't think two hour is that long. And that is two hours for the modules to pay for themself just from the ore gain no matter what mining bonus you have. The extra or gains does not diminish with more mining bonus, only in percentage terms, so the pay back time remains constant. Again that is not to say the payback time is even shorter when you place PM3s somewhere else. The rocket silo makes PM3 pay for themself within minutes, if you have the resources for the rocket ready, for example.
You do make a point though with each mining bonus being the equivalent of a PM3 module in every miner without the negative effects. Other than the first 3 levels that requires space science, and a lot of them. 2500 for level 4, 5000 for level 5, 7500 for level 6, ...
Lets helmod the cost for that with PM3 modules in every step wherever you can. 2500 of every (not military) science cost:
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147'751 iron ore = 821 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
118'122 copper ore = 656 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
60'833 coal = 338 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
18'850 stone = 104 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
Lets assume we do levels 4-6 instead of PM3 modules, that's 6 * 2500 science. Or 11514 miner hours to break even. The PM3 modules in miners pay for themself in under 1 hours (putting all the extra ore from beacons and PM3s into it). That means, ignoring power, at >11514 miners the mining bonus pays off quicker.
IF you do levels 4-6 instead of PM3 in miners and stop there. If you compare level 4 + PM3 vs. level 7 it's another 3*2500 science = 5757 miners. In fact per level of mining bonus it takes an extra 5757 miners to break even.
All of this ignores power. So you either need to add in the cost of solar cells or nuclear power on top. Remember PM3 work on uranium too and it takes very little uranium to produce 1 GW power. Going nuclear I don't think the extra cost is that high. With solar cells I'm more worried about the time and space it takes to place them.
So let's ballpark this to mining bonus being cheaper at >10000 + 5000 * <more levels> miners (largely guessing and overestimating power costs). Those figures don't make me want to agree that mining bonus is the better option. Launching 9 rockets sounds way less than building 30000 PM3, 20000 SM3 and 10000 beacons. Did I make a mistake in the math or is that just one of those cases where intuition is wrong? I too thought mining bonus was better, surely.
There is another factor to consider: UPS. The PM3 miners setup I showed has half the number of miners. Solar cells come at no UPS cost but accumulators do. And nuclear power is UPS costly too. So here is another question: Are beaconed miners more UPS costly or less?
PS: Assume everything else already has PM3 modules. No point in arguing PM3s are better placed in the rocket silo or the like. We all know that.
UPDATE:
I've calculate the miner hours with a mining bonus giving 10% increase on 0.5 ore/s and already for all 3 levels. And then I multiplied that by 6 since level 4+5+6 costs 6 times as much. But it also gives 30% increase on 0.5 ore/s.
So actual miner hours are:
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147'751 iron ore = 821 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
118'122 copper ore = 656 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
60'833 coal = 338 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
18'850 stone = 104 / <num miners> hours * (level - 3)
Or 1919 miner hours for level 4. Level 5 costs twice that and Level 6 three times as much, but they also give a combined 30% bonus: 641 * (1 + 2 + 3) / 3 = 3838 miner hours.