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Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:16 am
by oyunbagimlisi
In the game, we see that there are various ease/difficulties based on ''balance, logic, reality, functionality,''.
For example, having a very low gun range, being able to carry tons of weight in a pocket, etc. I can explain "coherent explanations" of things.
But all this time passed, I can't understand why adjacent pipes auto-join. I don't understand why they merged. ''Flow Control'' and ''
Picker Pipe Tools'' mods are 2 famous mods that support ''clamp''. I know these. But I can't explain why it's not in vanilla. (only non-adjacent pipes, not other extras.)
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:40 pm
by FuryoftheStars
If I had to guess, I’d say ease.
Vanilla’s auto join allows you to use and place 1 entity for all (aboveground) possibilities, vs 4 entities, some of which need rotation to line up, like in Flow Control.
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:23 pm
by oyunbagimlisi
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:40 pm
If I had to guess, I’d say ease.
Vanilla’s auto join allows you to use and place 1 entity for all (aboveground) possibilities, vs 4 entities, some of which need rotation to line up, like in Flow Control.
Okay, but that's never a convenience.
Or I didn't express what I wanted to say correctly.
Pipes converge strictly in vanilla. So there is no player choice. During most connections, the player has to leave 1 space. Because the game connects pipes that should not interfere. Since this is a challenge, mods make it easier by overcoming it. In short, the reason for this can never be convenience. The only explanation I can give is an incentive to use underground pipes...
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:01 pm
by FuryoftheStars
oyunbagimlisi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:23 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:40 pm
If I had to guess, I’d say ease.
Vanilla’s auto join allows you to use and place 1 entity for all (aboveground) possibilities, vs 4 entities, some of which need rotation to line up, like in Flow Control.
Okay, but that's never a convenience.
Or I didn't express what I wanted to say correctly.
Pipes converge strictly in vanilla. So there is no player choice. During most connections, the player has to leave 1 space. Because the game connects pipes that should not interfere. Since this is a challenge, mods make it easier by overcoming it. In short, the reason for this can never be convenience. The only explanation I can give is an incentive to use underground pipes...
Think of it like this: when building a pipe setup, which is easier? Building 50 of one type, or 30/10/5/5 of 4 types and risk not making enough of one type and have to travel a long ways back for more (or the raw materials to make more)?
And really, the auto join is not an issue. Just put a 1 tile space between the pipes you don’t want to join. All of the buildings that require fluid input have them spaced anyway. And it naturally allows you space to run up and down between the pipes, too.
But also, yes, it can force you into using more undergrounds. Undergrounds are more performant than the others, both on the fluid system itself and the game’s UPS. So it’s a win-win.
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:06 am
by oyunbagimlisi
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:01 pm
oyunbagimlisi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:23 pm
All of the buildings that require fluid input have them spaced anyway.
But the installation of related buildings is often more than one. So, for example, chemical plant and refinery buildings... These are built in a series.
The result is this: The mandatory 1 gap between them affects the current efficiency when using "transmitter" in the advancing game. So more transmitters cause more electricity usage.
With the number of transmitters required for 20 adjacent chemical plants; The number of transmitters required for the same array with 1 tile space between them will be different. Why should I stop saving?
You can overcome this to a certain extent, but unfortunately it is laborious and reduces visual pleasure.
I want to show you my oil plant. I spent long hours. What I mean is easier to understand.
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:12 am
by Koub
oyunbagimlisi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:06 am
The result is this: The mandatory 1 gap between them affects the current efficiency when using "transmitter" in the advancing game. So more transmitters cause more electricity usage.
With the number of transmitters required for 20 adjacent chemical plants; The number of transmitters required for the same array with 1 tile space between them will be different. Why should I stop saving?
I think this makes sense from a game design standpoint. Factorio is a game consisting in a number of small puzzles all wrapped together and interacting with each other.
If pipes didn't forcefully auto-connect to their neighbours, that would make them more similar to belts (from the puzzle standpoint). Having this "you can't lay out your pipes with the same ease as you would lay belts forces the player to solve a different kind of puzzle.
The game is not specifically designed so that there is one perfect solution to a given puzzle. We all have more or less OCD-ish tendancies. I have seen posts complaining that it's difficult to get perfectly aligned grids of power lines with the way they auto-connect, posts requesting a 1 extra tile reach to big power poles to be able to make perfectly chunk aligned long distance power lines, posts requiring 1 extra length for underground pipes so that an optimal 2xN nuclear plant can be crossed by a pipe, posts requesting to shave a few ms from the rocket takeoff animation to be able to achieve the 1kspm with one rocket (currently, one can only achieve 970 spm at best), ... the list is very long.
So, as a conclusion, I think the way pipes behave makes the game overall better despite (or maybe thanks to) the frustration they induce by auto-connecting. And if this aspect really bothers you to the point it degrades your gameplay experience, then there is a couple mods for you :
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Flow%20Control
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Flow_Control_Fix
Also this is loosely related while we're at it :
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/assembler ... assthrough
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:14 pm
by DaveMcW
oyunbagimlisi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:06 am
The result is this: The mandatory 1 gap between them affects the current efficiency when using "transmitter" in the advancing game. So more transmitters cause more electricity usage.
I want to show you my oil plant. I spent long hours. What I mean is easier to understand.
Without mods, it is possible to build a fluid factory with 8 beacons (verici) and no gap. Match the output of the cracking plants to the output of the refineries and let them share the same pipe.
Re: Why do pipes stick?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:44 pm
by FuryoftheStars
oyunbagimlisi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:06 am
But the installation of related buildings is often more than one. So, for example, chemical plant and refinery buildings... These are built in a series.
The result is this: The mandatory 1 gap between them affects the current efficiency when using "transmitter" in the advancing game. So more transmitters cause more electricity usage.
With the number of transmitters required for 20 adjacent chemical plants; The number of transmitters required for the same array with 1 tile space between them will be different. Why should I stop saving?
You can overcome this to a certain extent, but unfortunately it is laborious and reduces visual pleasure.
I want to show you my oil plant. I spent long hours. What I mean is easier to understand.
As Koub said, that's the challenge of pipes. As mentioned, if they didn't do the auto join, then they'd just be another belt.
If it isn't possible to get as "perfect" of a layout than with a belted system, then so be it.
Who really cares? Everything doesn't
have to be perfect/maxable.
But as DaveMcW said, it is possible in vanilla. You just gotta redo your layout.