koisama wrote:I like the idea of a loader with small internal buffer. It should only interact with belts, and you will still need an inserter to move items. Basically, it should be a part of the belt system that applies inserter stack bonus to belts.
I think this is the most reasonable suggestion so far. It's been elaborated on by others in this thread but the early quote seems to sum up the idea.
The main objection to implementing loaders seems to be that they will trivialize Inserters, and more importantly, trivialize the challenge/fun of making layouts for resource buffers, sorters, routers, junctions etc.
I think there's an important difference between making these layouts simpler, though, and just making them more compact for a given throughput.
If loaders/unloaders just act as intermediaries between belts and inserters, I think it might make designing these layouts even more interesting, because there will be another kind of basic element to integrate into them. It won't replace the need for inserters, chests etc, and the gameplay that's already built around these will remain.
The benefit that the loader DOES bring - when you choose to make it part of a layout - is saving space and repetition. Instead of replacing the need for an inserter entirely, it will reduce the need for 6/12/18 inserters to fill or empty a belt, dividing the number of inserters you need by the inserter stack size.
The designs I see now all seem to have long rows of identical inserter/belt/inserter elements, and I don't think it will detract from the gameplay to make these rows shorter. But it will add to the gameplay in several ways -
First, depending on the dimensions of the loader and the space/energy it needs, it won't always be worthwhile to use it versus taking things on/off the belt directly. This adds another tradeoff/calculation to make, finding the point at which you need to add loaders to get more throughput. And it adds more design complexity in fitting the loader in with the other things in the efficient ways.
Second, by making similar designs more compact, there will be new possibilities for fitting these into the larger layout of the factory. If you need less space for rows of inserters you can use that space for things that weren't practical before, like more elaborate control systems with circuits and combinators, more intricate production layouts with beacons and 4-6 ingredients, etc. Less repetition in one part of the factory could allow more complexity in other parts.
A related benefit is that you can also be more flexible fitting in these setups where the terrain, not the factory, is the limitation. The screenshots of the huge belt layouts I see never seem to have any bodies of water, forests, or large resource patches (that you could build over but would rather mine). This will allow you to build your layouts in places where you couldn't or wouldn't put them before.
Quite apart from the question of whether the loader adds interesting gameplay itself is also whether it reduces tedious, repetitive play that is not interesting or challenging. To me, it IS interesting, and challenging, to tinker with combining belts, chests, inserters etc. But building 9 inserters all doing the same thing is not.
Building loaders to "boost" the inserters is more interesting than either "only loaders" (if they make inserters redundant) OR "only inserters" (if loaders aren't implemented at all). I don't want the loader as it was shown in the FF post, because it wouldn't do anything that inserters don't already do. But I really like the idea of the loader as an accessory to inserter-belt systems.
Correct me if I've misunderstood any of the mechanics or gameplay involved. My perspective on this is that of a very new player.
But then I don't like the assumption that newer players want less complexity/challenge and the more experienced crowd are always in favor of more of it. I've only been playing Factorio since the Steam release. I haven't yet managed to make any of those complex designs I see on the forums work for me. But I'm enjoying the planning, trying, failing and return to planning immensely. I wouldn't still be playing, and reading the guides, forums, wiki etc if I didn't.