[Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

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Should the battery design stay the way it is in 0.15.51?

Yes, I like the current one better than the previous one.
20
26%
No, I admit I liked the previous design better. (Maybe come up with something similar.)
30
39%
No, come up with something different and possibly unique to Factorio.
26
34%
 
Total votes: 76

zOldBulldog
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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by zOldBulldog » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:29 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
zOldBulldog wrote:Any chance you can get it blessed by the devs so that Factorio won't disable achievements when running your mod?
Not sure how to achieve that. Are there any mods wich are not counted against achievements already?
No.
Bummer. Mods like his have zero chance to "give an advantage". They really ought to get an exemption... but I realize that would require code changes.

Maybe sometime in the future (even far future) we'll see "blessed as innocuous" mods that don't disable achievements?

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Oktokolo
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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Oktokolo » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:12 pm

zOldBulldog wrote:Bummer. Mods like his have zero chance to "give an advantage". They really ought to get an exemption... but I realize that would require code changes.
Maybe you could make mines more visible in multiplayer with image changes only. So probably someone would have to check mods requesting innocence status manually. But yes, there could be a process for getting a mod version marked by the devs. Maybe gated by a minimum download count and/or age requirement.
On the other hand, you still get achievements displayed ingame. So might be better to invest precious Wube team time into more mod APIs instead... ;)

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Especially since achievements are already separated into unmodded and modded game :
factorio_achievements.PNG
factorio_achievements.PNG (48.73 KiB) Viewed 945 times
And there even are mods that add new achievements !
https://mods.factorio.com/query/achievements
(for popular mods for instance)

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Szpak » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:00 pm

Gergely wrote: ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
This.

Could be even monocolor with a black lightning. Doesn't matter. But it has got to be intuitive like previous one.
Even with large zoom-out you should easily distinguish every component on a belt. New battery icon is just to similar to already existing ones..

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Gergely
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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Gergely » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:17 am

zOldBulldog wrote:
Jap2.0 wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
zOldBulldog wrote:Any chance you can get it blessed by the devs so that Factorio won't disable achievements when running your mod?
Not sure how to achieve that. Are there any mods wich are not counted against achievements already?
No.
Bummer. Mods like his have zero chance to "give an advantage". They really ought to get an exemption... but I realize that would require code changes.

Maybe sometime in the future (even far future) we'll see "blessed as innocuous" mods that don't disable achievements?
Actually there are. See my signature.

(Well, sort of... the game can detect SOME mods that don't change anything and keep achievements enabled. I read that somewhere in one of the FFF posts but I don't remember. It's also not stated anywhere in the mod itself that it wants to keep achievements.)

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by eradicator » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:40 am

Gergely wrote:Actually there are. See my signature.

(Well, sort of... the game can detect SOME mods that don't change anything and keep achievements enabled. I read that somewhere in one of the FFF posts but I don't remember. It's also not stated anywhere in the mod itself that it wants to keep achievements.)
The detection logic is quite clear: if (data.lua or control.lua) then disable_achievements(). And that's it.
Scenarios don't have either. Do you get steam achievements when playing arbitrary scenarios like that?
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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Gergely » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:22 pm

eradicator wrote:
Gergely wrote:Actually there are. See my signature.

(Well, sort of... the game can detect SOME mods that don't change anything and keep achievements enabled. I read that somewhere in one of the FFF posts but I don't remember. It's also not stated anywhere in the mod itself that it wants to keep achievements.)
The detection logic is quite clear: if (data.lua or control.lua) then disable_achievements(). And that's it.
Scenarios don't have either. Do you get steam achievements when playing arbitrary scenarios like that?
Where is it written?

Yeah... you are right, achievements are freeplay only.

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Oktokolo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:09 pm

eradicator wrote:The detection logic is quite clear: if (data.lua or control.lua) then disable_achievements(). And that's it.
So the code doesn't care about data-final-fixes.lua?

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by eradicator » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:59 pm

Oktokolo wrote:
eradicator wrote:The detection logic is quite clear: if (data.lua or control.lua) then disable_achievements(). And that's it.
So the code doesn't care about data-final-fixes.lua?
That was short for data-anything.lua.
And i don't know where that is officially documented.
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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Gergely » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:03 pm

eradicator wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
eradicator wrote:The detection logic is quite clear: if (data.lua or control.lua) then disable_achievements(). And that's it.
So the code doesn't care about data-final-fixes.lua?
That was short for data-anything.lua.
And i don't know where that is officially documented.
I think they only mentioned it in one of the FFF posts. Please reply only if you have found it. Don't derail the topic any further.

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Oktokolo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:48 pm

Gergely wrote:
eradicator wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
eradicator wrote:The detection logic is quite clear: if (data.lua or control.lua) then disable_achievements(). And that's it.
So the code doesn't care about data-final-fixes.lua?
That was short for data-anything.lua.
And i don't know where that is officially documented.
I think they only mentioned it in one of the FFF posts. Please reply only if you have found it. Don't derail the topic any further.
The mentioned FFF most likely is #227 - Rendering, Trees & Scenario talk (relevant Section is "Scenarios as mods"). It defines, that non-game-changing mods are detected by only containing locale data, campaigns and scenarios. It also mentions, that these mods do not have to be in sync for multiplayer to work.
But Bilka stated, that this does not affect achievements.
So there currently is no way to change an icon by mod and still get Steam achievements.
Whether overwriting the original icon in data/base/graphics/icons works, would have to be tested by someone owning the Steam version (got mine from GoG).

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by eradicator » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Oktokolo wrote:So there currently is no way to change an icon by mod and still get Steam achievements.
Whether overwriting the original icon in data/base/graphics/icons works, would have to be tested by someone owning the Steam version (got mine from GoG).
Yes. That will work. Same as manually injecting a new control.lua into an existing savegame.zip does not disable achievements. There's no point in bothering to try and add checks for every possible way people try to get achievements. Just let them have their fun.
Gergely wrote:I think they only mentioned it in one of the FFF posts. Please reply only if you have found it. Don't derail the topic any further.
I imagine most experienced modders can tell this from experience without looking at FFFs. And you can always try yourself ;).
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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Gergely » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:55 am

Szpak wrote:
Gergely wrote: ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
This.

Could be even monocolor with a black lightning. Doesn't matter. But it has got to be intuitive like previous one.
Even with large zoom-out you should easily distinguish every component on a belt. New battery icon is just to similar to already existing ones..
Today, I went a little insane and made this mod.

Please don't attack me violently, I did give credit where credit is definitely NOT due.
Image

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Szpak » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:36 am

Gergely wrote:Today, I went a little insane and made this mod.

Please don't attack me violently, I did give credit where credit is definitely NOT due.
Image
Nice job Gergely!
My personal favorites are cyan, magenta or yellow ;) Green/red/blue are to similar to chips.
I'd opt for yellow. Only other yellow material is sulfur and it is common knowledge that you shouldn't put sulfur on a belt ;)

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by 4xel » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:29 pm

For me, it was very weird to build 5.0 MJ accumulators in the desert with a bunch of self built yet branded non rechargeable AA batteries, so the old icon was a big turn off.

The new model being slightly less simplistic, I can remotely imagine it's something aking to a car battery or bigger, with wires hanging or attached to the sides, and LEDs indicating current power levels. So even if the new model is slightly more aggressive to the eye, I like it a lot, and used to hate the old one.

I think mostly the color need to be chaged a bit to make the new icon beautiful.

Now apparently there are simple looking cylindrical supercapacitor, so I'd be ok with a simple cylindrical battery, maybe a blue one, to match our intuition of a battery, while not being completely ridiculous about our intuition of a car battery or of a capacitor.

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Oktokolo » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:12 pm

4xel wrote:So even if the new model is slightly more aggressive to the eye, I like it a lot, and used to hate the old one.
If you like the new model but want less detail, try my mod.

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Gergely » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:19 am

Oktokolo wrote:
4xel wrote:So even if the new model is slightly more aggressive to the eye, I like it a lot, and used to hate the old one.
If you like the new model but want less detail, try my mod.
Whoa! Now I am working on integrating this into my own, so that whenever yours is present, it appears as a "clean" option in the menu.

EDIT: Version 0.1.2 now supports it.
Last edited by Gergely on Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Rizzano » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:05 am

I voted for a new design. I don't like the old one, and I don't particularly care for the new one.

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Escadin » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:48 am

Wait what? This is discussion is a thing???

The previous battery looked absolutely awful and out of place. Like taken straight from a sales catalog.
"--? How are commands compounded in a compounded compound command commanding compound composts." -defines.lua

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Re: [Poll] Battery design that stabilizes 0.16.51

Post by Gergely » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:54 am

Escadin wrote:Wait what? This is discussion is a thing???

The previous battery looked absolutely awful and out of place. Like taken straight from a sales catalog.
Oh really? Almost every game that has some sort of batteries in it uses the very same design the Factorio developers had to change for mysterious reasons. How the hell was it out of place?
Take a look
I highly dislike the one they currently have... I mean just look at it:
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