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The question about the global map.

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:59 am
by Horatio
Is it possible to make it closed? Let's say the size is 7x7 pixels. If you go to the left and go through 3 pixels, then we will be on the right. Not just teleportation, but transfer. Something like a ball.
Next question. Is it possible to make a map on several levels?

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:46 am
by mrvn
I've suggested this before but you can't make a cylindrical, spherical or torus world. That would require quite some changes in the game mechanics to use (x % width) all over the place in the factorio source.

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:09 pm
by HurkWurk
with the stock game no. with mods, teleportation only so far. i dont know anyone thats wrote a mod yet that checks the content of a cell and moves it someplace else. also, even if they did, it would not allow AI pathing, trains, etc, to path through that code. instead you would have to move to a stop, teleport, then start over on a new route.

map levels already exist, but not in the sense of up and down. they are simply separate, numbered, layers. but they are not connected in any order except what mods define. for instance, the factorissimo mod uses a layer for each factory building you create. (think pocket universe)

nothing stops you from creating mods that cause them to be layered in an order however, there are deep mining mods that do that.

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:55 am
by mrvn
HurkWurk wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:09 pm
with the stock game no. with mods, teleportation only so far. i dont know anyone thats wrote a mod yet that checks the content of a cell and moves it someplace else. also, even if they did, it would not allow AI pathing, trains, etc, to path through that code. instead you would have to move to a stop, teleport, then start over on a new route.

map levels already exist, but not in the sense of up and down. they are simply separate, numbered, layers. but they are not connected in any order except what mods define. for instance, the factorissimo mod uses a layer for each factory building you create. (think pocket universe)

nothing stops you from creating mods that cause them to be layered in an order however, there are deep mining mods that do that.
Doing teleportation even on a 1000x1000 map would require LUA script that checks 4000 tiles every tick and teleports stuff. How few UPS would you get with that?

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:10 pm
by HurkWurk
no clue. assuming a 1000 edge, means 2000 teleport locations to check. most mods only do things every 10 ticks or so. (im assuming a 10 tick per second engine, i dont recall if factorio uses 10 or 60 however)

if you wrote the script specifically for optimization, you would break up the border into 10 pieces, so every tick you check 1/10th of the total. for us that would be an extra 200 operations per tick, not counting actual movement using the basic teleport logic already built into the game.

i would guess for only 1000 size, not that bad.

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:50 pm
by Jap2.0
HurkWurk wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:10 pm
no clue. assuming a 1000 edge, means 2000 teleport locations to check. most mods only do things every 10 ticks or so. (im assuming a 10 tick per second engine, i dont recall if factorio uses 10 or 60 however)

if you wrote the script specifically for optimization, you would break up the border into 10 pieces, so every tick you check 1/10th of the total. for us that would be an extra 200 operations per tick, not counting actual movement using the basic teleport logic already built into the game.

i would guess for only 1000 size, not that bad.
Just btw it's 60; 60 ticks/s, 60 fps, 60 ups, etc.

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:38 am
by mrvn
Jap2.0 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:50 pm
HurkWurk wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:10 pm
no clue. assuming a 1000 edge, means 2000 teleport locations to check. most mods only do things every 10 ticks or so. (im assuming a 10 tick per second engine, i dont recall if factorio uses 10 or 60 however)

if you wrote the script specifically for optimization, you would break up the border into 10 pieces, so every tick you check 1/10th of the total. for us that would be an extra 200 operations per tick, not counting actual movement using the basic teleport logic already built into the game.

i would guess for only 1000 size, not that bad.
Just btw it's 60; 60 ticks/s, 60 fps, 60 ups, etc.
And you have to check every belt every tick of items will flow stop-and-go.

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:53 pm
by HurkWurk
mrvn wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:38 am
And you have to check every belt every tick of items will flow stop-and-go.
no. factorissimo already does this. even with Bob's exceedingly fast belts, there is no stop/start/gaps. by default, it only updates every 10 ticks (6 times a second)

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:04 pm
by mrvn
HurkWurk wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:53 pm
mrvn wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:38 am
And you have to check every belt every tick of items will flow stop-and-go.
no. factorissimo already does this. even with Bob's exceedingly fast belts, there is no stop/start/gaps. by default, it only updates every 10 ticks (6 times a second)
1) that would limit belts to 20 items/s.
2) wouldn't it update 10% every tick?

Re: The question about the global map.

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:44 pm
by HurkWurk
there is no limit i saw for items per tick. they are buffered on one side and output on the other.
the only time i have ever seen that fail was a extremely large UPS base back in early 15 that i had created where i had ~50+ factorissimo buildings running and nested etc, and was finally out of UPS so was getting gaps in belts coming out of factories. (inside the fatories you could see the belts stop moving because they were not getting enough CPU time to move their content outside)

the solution when you are at that level of UPS consumption was to switch to chests (which transfer 50% of their total content per 10 ticks) and use loaders to unload the chests at a full belt thickness.

I believe the fastest belts i ever used were 80 or 90 per second. belts "hold" 7 items, so even if its only 6 updates a second, its still a total thru-put of 42ish (remember, its teleporting the entire content of 1 square of belt, not just the leading edge)