Factorio Forums

We are playing a huge map with 4 people, all in their own team (peace mode of AutoPvP).

Our bases are not too lange, playtime is around 40 hours.
Save is about 30MB.

One of players is getting jumps and can not play anymore.
His log is attached.
He has a good internet connect, but his hardware seems to be slow.

I am getting low fps right now and I think I will get jumps soon and would not be able to play anymore.
I having the slowest internet connection (12Mbit/s)...

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And there is second issue, which might have the same reason like first:
If me or my friend dress a modular armor (empty), we Immediently get jumps and can not play anymore.

2 other guys on the server don't have such issues.

Current solution is to run command or maybe even 0.8
As the map grows you'll need to slow down the game more for the slowest HW in the group to keep up.

You might also want to decrease the amount of mods you are using. 90 is a bit much

As for modular armor issue. I think some mod is doing some heavy processing when player equips armor with equipment grid. To see which one, enable "show_time_used_percent" in Debug settings (in-game hit F4)

Thank you for your replies.

Lower speed might be an option, but will work only for a while I guess.

The amount of mods might have indeed an influence, but in single player same save and mods are not causing any problems.
There are many small mods, which add one or a few items or functionalities...

Slow mods (Script update) have been removed.

My Screenshot without modular armor: And with modular armor (see the jumps and low fps?): I have also attached my current.log

Did you simply put the armor on?
Quite a few mods increased processing time by a lot and some of them should have nothing to do with modular armor (Bio Industries or KS Power for example).

Might be something related to the fact that player as entity has the armor. Or there is something amiss with lua garbage collector - one of mods might be spamming stuff at it since it's quite high to begin with but goes up drastically when you put on the armor.

Also first screen shows that you are unable to run game at 60 fps even without the armor. It would seem you are reaching limits of whats possible with your hardware. That lua garbage issue might be causing this since 1.7ms is a lot (frame has about 13ms to be ready for 60 fps).

orzelek wrote:Did you simply put the armor on?
Quite a few mods increased processing time by a lot and some of them should have nothing to do with modular armor (Bio Industries or KS Power for example).

Might be something related to the fact that player as entity has the armor. Or there is something amiss with lua garbage collector - one of mods might be spamming stuff at it since it's quite high to begin with but goes up drastically when you put on the armor.

Also first screen shows that you are unable to run game at 60 fps even without the armor. It would seem you are reaching limits of whats possible with your hardware. That lua garbage issue might be causing this since 1.7ms is a lot (frame has about 13ms to be ready for 60 fps).

Yes, I just put the armor on.
And as I said, I can not imagine my hardware is too bad (see log), because I have 60fps with this save and mods in singleplayer.

orzelek wrote:Also first screen shows that you are unable to run game at 60 fps even without the armor. It would seem you are reaching limits of whats possible with your hardware.

Exactly, you are already not on par with the server, once you put on the PA it takes up significant CPU time for a moment which lets you fall behind and since you are unable to catch up continuously you end jumping instead of playing.

Loewchen wrote:

orzelek wrote:Also first screen shows that you are unable to run game at 60 fps even without the armor. It would seem you are reaching limits of whats possible with your hardware.

Exactly, you are already not on par with the server, once you put on the PA it takes up significant CPU time for a moment which lets you fall behind and since you are unable to catch up continuously you end jumping instead of playing.

What is PA? And what about single player? I run with 60 fps there.

Sacredd wrote:

Loewchen wrote:

orzelek wrote:Also first screen shows that you are unable to run game at 60 fps even without the armor. It would seem you are reaching limits of whats possible with your hardware.

Exactly, you are already not on par with the server, once you put on the PA it takes up significant CPU time for a moment which lets you fall behind and since you are unable to catch up continuously you end jumping instead of playing.

And what about single player? I run with 60 fps there.

Usually MP does not put on noticeable additional load, why this is not the case for you I don't know, but even if we could find out, nothing suggests that you could do anything about it. The best way for you to get back into the game is to generally improve performance, meaning removing not necessary mods, reducing belts as far as possible, replacing necessary belts with underground belts and killing all enemy units on the charted map.

I guess its my internet connection. It seems like developers have to improve mp: load only an area where a player is close to.
Entities which could not be load fast enough, should be replaced by a placeholder entity. Load enemies with first priority.

I will post u a few Screenshot how big our map is...

Sacredd wrote:It seems like developers have to improve mp: load only an area where a player is close to.
Entities which could not be load fast enough, should be replaced by a placeholder entity. Load enemies with first priority.

This is not possible because of the way multiplayer is implemented. The client always simulates the whole factory, even the parts that are not on the screen. It's essentially the same as in singleplayer, except with additional players. The only information sent over the network is the other player's inputs and actions, everything else (how many items an assembler crafted, where an item is on a transport belt, the position of every robot, ..., essentially the complete game-state) is calculated by every client individually. That explains what a desync in MP is and how it happens: the server and client ended up with different calculation results, because of a bug or slight differences in a mod. Having that information only calculated by the server and then sent to every client would lead to lots of traffic even when only transmitting the entities visible to the player, because every entity is updated 60 times per second (although I remember reading that they already changed multiplayer interaction to only update 30 times per second).

Sacredd, you have posted log from 2 computers, I am just interested on which one the game performs better.
The first log was from Core i3-530 with GeForce GT 320, the second one was from AMD FX-4130 with GeForce 8800 Ultra. According to passmark.com the AMD CPU has about 10% better single thread performance than the Intel CPU.

Anyways on the first screenshot it look like you are already skipping few updates per second, equiping module armor just throws it to infinine catching up (UPS counter doesn't show correct value at that stage). I am not aware of any heavy calculations related to armor with equipment grid, but it is possible we just don't have good benchmarks for detecting such issue.

Anyway, if the slow computers want to stay in the game, game has to slow down, there is no way around it. game.speed = 0.8 is currently way to go.

daniel34 wrote:

Sacredd wrote:It seems like developers have to improve mp: load only an area where a player is close to.
Entities which could not be load fast enough, should be replaced by a placeholder entity. Load enemies with first priority.

This is not possible because of the way multiplayer is implemented. The client always simulates the whole factory, even the parts that are not on the screen. It's essentially the same as in singleplayer, except with additional players. The only information sent over the network is the other player's inputs and actions, everything else (how many items an assembler crafted, where an item is on a transport belt, the position of every robot, ..., essentially the complete game-state) is calculated by every client individually. That explains what a desync in MP is and how it happens: the server and client ended up with different calculation results, because of a bug or slight differences in a mod. Having that information only calculated by the server and then sent to every client would lead to lots of traffic even when only transmitting the entities visible to the player, because every entity is updated 60 times per second (although I remember reading that they already changed multiplayer interaction to only update 30 times per second).

This is really too bad. And it means large maps will be not playable, but its fun to build large maps with a lot a space between bases and outposts...

I hope developers will invest into improvements of MP and Mods.
Mods because if I would play only Vanialla I would stop at 100 or 200 hours of playing. Now I have reached almoust 1500 hours playtime...

I would pay 10-20€ per month to be able to have good MP server...
Now we are 4 people paying around 15€ per month together, but I would like to pay to developers instead...

posila wrote:Sacredd, you have posted log from 2 computers, I am just interested on which one the game performs better.
The first log was from Core i3-530 with GeForce GT 320, the second one was from AMD FX-4130 with GeForce 8800 Ultra. According to passmark.com the AMD CPU has about 10% better single thread performance than the Intel CPU.

Anyways on the first screenshot it look like you are already skipping few updates per second, equiping module armor just throws it to infinine catching up (UPS counter doesn't show correct value at that stage). I am not aware of any heavy calculations related to armor with equipment grid, but it is possible we just don't have good benchmarks for detecting such issue.

Anyway, if the slow computers want to stay in the game, game has to slow down, there is no way around it. game.speed = 0.8 is currently way to go.

My PC AMD FX-4130 with GeForce 8800 Ultra is running better, but I have 8GM RAM and my friend only 4GB.

Sacredd wrote: This is really too bad. And it means large maps will be not playable, but its fun to build large maps with a lot a space between bases and outposts...

The size of a map is no metric for its performance, you can have as much space between your outpost as you like without any performance issues. We played maps with outpost so far away you had to load trains with rocket fuel so they could even reach the bases and had no problem with lags.
As posila told you, you can slow down the simulation on server to keep on playing, and with the methods I told you, you easily double the performance depending on how you play now. Performance is an important resource in factorio and no matter how far it gets improved, the limit never disappears completely, and with 80 mods and your hardware you see those limit sooner than others.

Here Screenshots to show the size of current map.

My friends have definatly scouted twice or more I did...