Disable Catching up feature

[MimigaKing]

Hello,

Is there any option via the In-game host LAN game (via the Play/Multiplayer/Load game) to disable the catching up feature and just automatically pause the game whenever someone connects to the server?

That's how it used to work in 0.13. We just pause the game manually every time someone connects anyway because otherwise he get's stuck in queue forever and that also forces me to /promote everyone on the server otherwise they can't pause it. Big problem with that is that sometimes, when we're the first on the server, we can't even catch up and I have to go slow down the game server-side with "/c game.speed = 0.1".

Considering we're already running the game at 0.835 (for 50 fps) and that my friend keeps asking that we pause the server whenever we're the last one on because he's mostly unable to catch up otherwise.

thanks

[Loewchen]

There is not.

[MimigaKing]

There is not.

Could there be?

[Loewchen]

There is not.

Could there be?

The method would be to simply automate what you do already: pausing until the download is finished, then the catch up phase can be skipped, but that would be a new feature, see here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33384

[Sparkysam]

There is not.

Could there be?

The method would be to simply automate what you do already: pausing until the download is finished, then the catch-up phase can be skipped, but that would be a new feature, see here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33384

Actually, that is incorrect, that feature was removed from.13 and the catching up feature was added in .14 which was tbh a mistake for larger servers and means server need to be paused constantly to allow people to get in, saying it would need to be made is incorrect due to it being part of older version of the game.
Please go to an older version and test it out and come back and tell me please if what I said is true, so try .13 ( any version) and then go to .14 and see.

[daniel34]

Actually, that is incorrect, that feature was removed from.13 and the catching up feature was added in .14 which was tbh a mistake for larger servers and means server need to be paused constantly to allow people to get in, saying it would need to be made is incorrect due to it being part of older version of the game.
Please go to an older version and test it out and come back and tell me please if what I said is true, so try .13 ( any version) and then go to .14 and see.

Yes, in 0.13 the game paused while downloading the map and there was no catch-up needed.
0.14 keeps the game running while downloading, but the client has to catch up after downloading.

saying it would need to be made is incorrect due to it being part of older version of the game

You're wrong on that one. That was not the only change in multiplayer code in 0.14, there were many architectural and code-changes and the multiplayer code was completely rewritten (see FFF #147 and FFF #149). The devs can't just take the code that paused the game from 0.13 and implement it into the current code, because it's completely different. This feature actually would have to be remade and take some dev-hours to work with Factorio 0.14/0.15.

[Sparkysam]

saying it would need to be made is incorrect due to it being part of older version of the game

You're wrong on that one. That was not the only change in multiplayer code in 0.14, there were many architectural and code changes and the multiplayer code was completely rewritten (see FFF #147 and FFF #149). The devs can't just take the code that paused the game from 0.13 and implements it into the current code because it's completely different. This feature actually would have to be remade and take some dev-hours to work with Factorio 0.14/0.15.

A new implementation needs to be made on that front since the catchup system is no good for the vast majority of factorio players (being the modding community).
If it is running a similar engine yes taking obsolete code is something we can agree on not using but something does need to be done even if it is a mod or a feature which someone can add which someone can tick a box and stop the catch up system from being active, and the older system being in place.

Actually, that is incorrect, that feature was removed from.13 and the catching up feature was added in .14 which was tbh a mistake for larger servers and means server need to be paused constantly to allow people to get in, saying it would need to be made is incorrect due to it being part of older version of the game.
Please go to an older version and test it out and come back and tell me please if what I said is true, so try .13 ( any version) and then go to .14 and see.

Yes, in 0.13 the game paused while downloading the map and there was no catch-up needed.
0.14 keeps the game running while downloading, but the client has to catch up after downloading.

Which we see as yes maybe an older system that for sure is not better for vanilla but generally if you are using mods it adds more time to getting into the server you are playing on, especially with my laptop which is only able to achieve 3.3Ghz, if I was on my desktop is not as much since that is at 4.5Ghz but still would find a work around that or even a vote for a new system would be much appreciated.

[Klonan]

A new implementation needs to be made on that front since the catchup system is no good for the vast majority of factorio players (being the modding community).


Which we see as yes maybe an older system that for sure is not better for vanilla but generally if you are using mods it adds more time to getting into the server you are playing on, especially with my laptop which is only able to achieve 3.3Ghz, if I was on my desktop is not as much since that is at 4.5Ghz but still would find a work around that or even a vote for a new system would be much appreciated.

The catchup system has been in place for many many months now, and i have only seen rare compaints about it, you can't just say 'it is no good' without any justification.

Mods will have little effect on how long it takes to catchup, unless they are extremely unoptimized mods.

[posila]

Catching up feature is great. Previously if you hosted public server and some random person with bad connection to the server started to join and took forever to download the map, you couldn't do anything about it.

But, it still needs some polishing and improvements. Problem is that we always test this stuff on computers with almost the same configuration. It is silly that you can't play with a friend that has more (or less) powerful computer without manually pausing the game or tweaking game speed, if the map is big enough.

[Sparkysam]

A new implementation needs to be made on that front since the catchup system is no good for the vast majority of factorio players (being the modding community).


Which we see as yes maybe an older system that for sure is not better for vanilla but generally if you are using mods it adds more time to getting into the server you are playing on, especially with my laptop which is only able to achieve 3.3Ghz, if I was on my desktop is not as much since that is at 4.5Ghz but still would find a work around that or even a vote for a new system would be much appreciated.

The catchup system has been in place for many many months now, and I have only seen rare complaints about it, you can't just say 'it is no good' without any justification.

Mods will have little effect on how long it takes to catch up unless they are extremely unoptimized mods.

here's the low down on the server:
It's based out of Quebec Canada on a 100/50 Connection
has a 3470k clocked at max turbo ( No manual overclock yet)
16GB of 1600 Mhz ram.
Latency of server for december

Now three of us have been playing a heavily modded game with a mix of bobs, bobs extended and facorissmo, etc.. Now it is only around 2 - 3 days game time played and yet it takes me over 2 minutes to catch up with a 70/20 connection with a ping of only 45ms between server and client.

Now you're saying that mods have very little effect on the server catch up, so then it must be based on ping and server speed, now the server isn't exactly slow but the fact even though my ping is better than some connections I get in the UK that should help.

Now since the server is decent and the connection is quick as well but yet after 2 days game time played it takes over 2 minutes which if you'd like me to time I can; also the host has stated to me he struggles as well and he is local to the server (in his room) @Mimigaking proof

All I am asking is it be considered to have the option of the old system for the modding community, yes i understand in some cases where someone with a bad connection will cause the whole server to stop but in the case of this we are finding that this system is more an annoyance than a benefit to the game and a vote or something needs to be done to see how people feel about it.

[Sparkysam]

Catching up feature is great. Previously if you hosted public server and some random person with the bad connection to the server started to join and took forever to download the map, you couldn't do anything about it.

But, it still needs some polishing and improvements. Problem is that we always test this stuff on computers with almost the same configuration. It is silly that you can't play with a friend that has more (or less) powerful computer without manually pausing the game or tweaking game speed if the map is big enough.

Which is fair enough, all I am saying is there needs to be an option of turning catch up off or a way of making the server automatically pause when someone enters.
The system does need refinement as most of the community is modding the game and adding new features like BOB's and the catchup system for that struggles due to the need for quite a large map and trains.

[MimigaKing]

Now since the server is decent and the connection is quick as well but yet after 2 days game time played it takes over 2 minutes which if you'd like me to time I can; also the host has stated to me he struggles as well and he is local to the server (in his room) @Mimigaking proof

Little precision there mate.

The In-game latency reports a value of 17ms while I'm at work
The same in-game latency reports me having 8ms of latency from home. The server being on the same network at home.

Now, it takes me 80 seconds to catch-up to the game from work @ 3.4GHz and it takes me 40 seconds to catch up from work @ 3.4GHz.

Maybe there is a relation between ping and catch-up delays but it still doesn't change the fact that the auto-pause feature from 0.13 is already coded and readily available to you developpers. I do not believe it would be very hard to re-implement it into 0.14 and make another check-box below the verify user check-box in the server interface.


I do agree that the catch-up feature is good for a plain vanilla game server but for anything that includes an overhaul mod such as Bob or Dytech, by mid-game, there are too many entities active to allow anyone to join within a good amount of time using the catch-up feature.


As a side note, if you don't mind me asking, when you guys do your internal testings, where do you have your server running? local, same city? or far away.

Because in a real-life experience, you'll almost always have people from all over the world wishing to play together which should be considered as the "true" test.

[Klonan]

Like i said, Mods don't have any impact on how long it takes to catch up, you can have a game with 1000 mods catchup quicker than a vanilla factory

Catching up is your game processing the world faster than the server is, so that you can 'catchup' to the current state of the map, it is completely dependant on the CPU and RAM speed of your machine VS the host, and isn't affected by network ping or latency

There is also still the option to pause the game while someone is catching up, which completely solves this issue without having to bring back all the problems with pausing while a client is joining

[Sparkysam]

Like I said, Mods don't have any impact on how long it takes to catch up, you can have a game with 1000 mods catch up quicker than a vanilla factory

Catching up is your game processing the world faster than the server is so that you can 'catch up' to the current state of the map, it is completely dependant on the CPU and RAM speed of your machine VS the host, and isn't affected by network ping or latency

There is also still the option to pause the game while someone is catching up, which completely solves this issue without having to bring back all the problems with pausing while a client is joining

yes but this requires someone to
A) be an admin of the server and the rights to be able to do that.
b) someone to actually be on the server at the time of someone catching up to solve this issue or someone able to be at the fingers touch of the command line of the server to be able to pause it.

Also, this basically means laptops are not really able to do this, take into mind; mine is not that old and was top of the range when I got it in terms of CPU and SSD capabilities:

• I7 - 4710MQ - max speed with turbo 3.3Ghz
• 16GB of 1600Mhz ram ( 1600 being the max it can do from its specification)
• 256 850 Samsung Evo

If this is the case imagine what it is like for someone with a computer a lot slower than mine, and I know quite a few people who have AMD A8 chips or even I5 which can't even come close to this, and are maxed to 1266Mhz ram and a boost of around 2.8 or even in the A8's case it is 1.92Ghz, they would not even be able to get into the server at all because of the clock speed of some servers being nearly 3.8Ghz and maybe has ram of 2133Mhz.

[Klonan]

yes but this requires someone to
A) be an admin of the server and the rights to be able to do that.
b) someone to actually be on the server at the time of someone catching up to solve this issue or someone able to be at the fingers touch of the command line of the server to be able to pause it.

A) You don't have to be an admin to pause the game, its a simple server setting
B) If nobody is on the server, no time will pass for the user to catch up to...

Also, this basically means laptops are not really able to do this, take into mind; mine is not that old and was top of the range when I got it in terms of CPU and SSD capabilities:

• I7 - 4710MQ - max speed with turbo 3.3Ghz
• 16GB of 1600Mhz ram ( 1600 being the max it can do from its specification)
• 256 850 Samsung Evo

If this is the case imagine what it is like for someone with a computer a lot slower than mine, and I know quite a few people who have AMD A8 chips or even I5 which can't even come close to this, and are maxed to 1266Mhz ram and a boost of around 2.8 or even in the A8's case it is 1.92Ghz, they would not even be able to get into the server at all because of the clock speed of some servers being nearly 3.8Ghz and maybe has ram of 2133Mhz.

This is one of the known limitations of the catching up, users will slow pcs might never be able to catch up,
But we are addressing this in the proper way, in that we are optimizing the game itself so that it is more efficient, which has many many benefits including reducing the time spent catching up, and allowing bigger factories

[posila]

B) If nobody is on the server, no time will pass for the user to catch up to...

That is actually not true. 1) server resumes simulation as soon as somebody starts connecting; 2) there is option to disable server auto-pause entirely.