Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

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wahming
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Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by wahming »

As you can see in the attached images, base pollution is 4 / minute, but jumps by a factor of about 47% for each prod 1 module that is inserted, much higher than the 5% stated in the tooltip.

Version: 0.17.76
Mods: Nothing to speak of, QoL only
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Last edited by wahming on Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

orzelek
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by orzelek »

Thats correct.
You are increasing emissions by 5% and energy usage by 40% - thats 47% increase to pollution total.

Relation of pollution to power usage is not shown anywhere I think.

wahming
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by wahming »

orzelek wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:14 pm
Thats correct.
You are increasing emissions by 5% and energy usage by 40% - thats 47% increase to pollution total.
Huh? Is it supposed to factor increased energy usage into that? What about those of us using solar or nuclear power?

DaleStan
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by DaleStan »

The power source generates (or doesn't, in the case of solar and nuclear) its own pollution. The pollution on the tooltip is the pollution generated by building itself, regardless of how it gets its power.

In our world, simply consuming electricity (running an refrigerator or an oven) does not, in and of itself, generate pollution, but in Factorio it does.

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valneq
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by valneq »

DaleStan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:27 pm
The power source generates (or doesn't, in the case of solar and nuclear) its own pollution. The pollution on the tooltip is the pollution generated by building itself, regardless of how it gets its power.

In our world, simply consuming electricity (running an refrigerator or an oven) does not, in and of itself, generate pollution, but in Factorio it does.
Wait, whaat!? :shock: Does that actually mean an increased power consumption of 100% results in a total of 200% increased pollution, compared to 0% increased power consumption? The additional pollution by the machine itself, and the pollution from the increased power load on my boilers? (Assuming I am using only boilers for power production)

wahming
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by wahming »

valneq wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:48 pm
DaleStan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:27 pm
The power source generates (or doesn't, in the case of solar and nuclear) its own pollution. The pollution on the tooltip is the pollution generated by building itself, regardless of how it gets its power.

In our world, simply consuming electricity (running an refrigerator or an oven) does not, in and of itself, generate pollution, but in Factorio it does.
Wait, whaat!? :shock: Does that actually mean an increased power consumption of 100% results in a total of 200% increased pollution, compared to 0% increased power consumption? The additional pollution by the machine itself, and the pollution from the increased power load on my boilers? (Assuming I am using only boilers for power production)
That's not the intended behaviour, hence the bug report.

orzelek
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by orzelek »

wahming wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:55 pm
valneq wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:48 pm
DaleStan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:27 pm
The power source generates (or doesn't, in the case of solar and nuclear) its own pollution. The pollution on the tooltip is the pollution generated by building itself, regardless of how it gets its power.

In our world, simply consuming electricity (running an refrigerator or an oven) does not, in and of itself, generate pollution, but in Factorio it does.
Wait, whaat!? :shock: Does that actually mean an increased power consumption of 100% results in a total of 200% increased pollution, compared to 0% increased power consumption? The additional pollution by the machine itself, and the pollution from the increased power load on my boilers? (Assuming I am using only boilers for power production)
That's not the intended behaviour, hence the bug report.
For some reason you doubled the %-age otherwise it is indeed how the game works. 100% increase in power usage will increase pollution by 100%. Thats why efficiency modules greatly reduce pollution when used to drop power usage to 20% (minimum to which modules can drop it).

Each entity has emission value that is used to calculate pollution. That value gives how much pollution entity emits in a minute if running at full power.
If you increase power usage of entity pollution will increase proportionally to that. In addition to that modules can increase the emissions value itself which increases pollution per minute too.
It would be like this:
Pollution = base pollution * pollution multiplier * power usage multiplier
From that you get based on initial example:
4 (base entity emissions in this case) * 1.15 (pollution +15%) * 2.20 (energy usage + 120%) = 10.12 pollution/minute

And to answer additional question - source of energy generation doesn't matter for this calculation. Steam power pollutes more simply because boilers also pollute and solar energy is clean. Energy consumers will still pollute as described above.

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TruePikachu
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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by TruePikachu »

In any case, I'm fairly certain this is currently NaB, since it's working the way it is "supposed" to (i.e. the way the code is supposed to work).

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Re: Pollution values are wrong after modules inserted

Post by chrisgbk »

NaB, been brought up many times over the years:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=59039&p=352324&hil ... on#p352324
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=52254&p=305331&hil ... on#p305331
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=48807&p=282639&hil ... on#p282639

The pollution modifier is a penalty in addition to the increase caused by the module effects.

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