Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

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LuxSublima
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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by LuxSublima »

Kovarex - Will there be a point at which you up-prioritize backwards compatibility - specifically for mods at the 1.x level? I know they are not the main point of the game, but they are an enormous replay factor. I'm currently playing Krastorio 2, featured on the Factorio homepage, with most the other mods its creators' recommend. I'm not saying it's better than vanilla - I still love and play both - but its soooooo good, and sufficiently different, it makes me feel like the value I got from buying Factorio practically doubled.

The amazing work your team has done to make mods possible at such an extensive level, and make them so easy to find and use - it reinvigorates my interest and deepens my already vast respect for you as developers. Having already dealt with some mod-breaking changes before 1.0 (perfectly acceptable), I was really hoping that 1.0 would mark a qualitative change in how backwards compatibility is prioritized. Is this the case, or will it be at some later 1.x release?

The night-time lighting is breathtaking, btw. :) Looking forward to testing 1.1! :D

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by LuxSublima »

coppercoil wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:31 pm
Am I the only player who cares about old game saves?
Nope - I also care about some old saves, and have a few I'm still keeping from 0.12, 0.13, etc. But I'm not going to insist that Wube keep a ton of old code from pre-1.0 versions. As a software developer myself I know how problematic and costly it can be to maintain deprecated code. We are fortunate they make such reliable migrations at all. I do believe, however, that making all saves from 1.0+ loadable in all future versions would be a very good move on Wube's part. It's the type of stability I've come to expect from 1.0-releases in all kinds of software.

Pre-1.0, you have to expect breaking changes to some extent :) leaving the developers free to make better decisions at lower cost before that major milestone.

Personally, I'm willing to use the beta selector in Steam to go through the process to upgrade and play my old saves if I ever want to revisit my early factories, though perhaps a separately downloadable utility to go through this process more easily would be worth the effort at some point? Factorio did spend a vast amount of time in Early Access, making fond memories for thousands of players before 1.0. Just a thought. :)

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by LuxSublima »

mikehendi wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:58 pm
Nexarius wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:51 am
Awesome !

Could we also get an option to change the zoom level which changes from normal view to map view?
+1

Even on maximum zoom out, it's a bit tricky to see biter nests south of you in time (aka before you trigger an attack), as the quickbars "hide" them even longer.

Perhaps we could use SHIFT+scroll wheel to allow zooming out beyond a bit further than the standard limitation.
yessssss
+2

I have so often wanted more control over that zoom level transition from map to normal. Your SHIFT+scroll idea is intriguing.

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AmericanPatriot
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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by AmericanPatriot »

mikehendi wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:58 pm
Perhaps we could use SHIFT+scroll wheel to allow zooming out beyond a bit further than the standard limitation.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Kux-Zooming

or

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Infinizoom
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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by LuxSublima »

Eydamos wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:57 pm
I also liked the Character tab as I could digest all information about my character at one place in the middle of the screen where my eyes lay most of the time.
Being able to access the grid of you armor while being in a vehicle was also very nice and I have often used this to move stuff between my grid and the spidertrons grid many times.
Came here to say exactly this. :)

I've used the Character tab so much since 1.0 that it really felt like "ahhh yes, this was always missing and now it's here - thank you Wube." I can relate to the de-duplication motivation that Kovarex mentions, but in this case I think it should take a backseat to convenience, natural expectations, and summary-clarity. It feels right and reassuring to have an at-a-glance summary of all my character-specific state. Without the character tab, I'll have to check multiple places, depending on how my GUI is configured, to get all that information.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Stexe »

Any chance for new achievements now that the game has come a far way since the last round of achievements? Maybe things like building Spidertron or some other objectives such as beating the game on Death World or something?

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by wibblewobble »

Disappointed about removing the Character tab. It was more of an RPG thing, and a nice way to see your character. It also had good possibilities with future mods that have no good GUI for them.

:( :( :( :( :(

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by AmericanPatriot »

wibblewobble wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:46 am
Disappointed about removing the Character tab. It was more of an RPG thing, and a nice way to see your character. It also had good possibilities with future mods that have no good GUI for them.
But did you really use it at all?
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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Myoron »

I really hope the Inventory/Crafting/Logistics panes are still in that order, rather than the Inventory/Logistics/Crafting as shown in the blog. I constantly use the "blinking inventory to show you already have this" feature with crafting, and with a 36" monitor I'm going to get a crick in the neck swinging from midright to midleft looking to see how many electric drills I already have and how many times I need to click for 84 total.

Also don't like removing the Character pane, I did use it as a quick "hit E and see numerical battery/shield charge" and less mouse movement changing weapons and ammo.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by KatherineOfSky »

Lots of interesting changes. My thoughts:

1. I MUCH prefer the crafting tab in the middle. I have been using the flat layout since 1.0 was released, and the crafting section is the one I use most often, even if I don't handcraft: I use it to look for items in my inventory. I rarely adjust logistics, and prefer to have it on the right side, (as it has been all these months). I shift/ctrl click items into my trash slots, never drag them, so distance isn't an issue.

Please don't make every single player have to adjust to a new layout... we've gotten used to having Inventory / Crafting / Logistics for months now.

2. Rich text icon selector - Yay!

3. Belt building in line - A very useful feature at times. I would like to both use it and turn it off to paint large areas of belts. Could you please make this an option toggleable by one of the shortcut bar buttons? (Since it is an option that will be turned on/off frequently by most players, I feel it makes sense to put it somewhere handy instead of taking many clicks to get to it in the Settings).

4. Blueprint selection in map - be still my heart, for life is glorious! Yay!

5. Entity night lighting - I think the new lighting has a "cool" factor, but I REALLY would miss the pools of light on the ground. I enjoyed having a bit of light at night. Now the areas look deserted and the light doesn't illuminate the area, which doesn't make any sense. Instead of "lighting", you've actually darkened the place quite a bit, and it's far far far too dark IMO. I like the lights on the train and furnaces, but everything else is much worse. The centrifuges and power plant are waaaaay too dark. (I loved the original versions). It's like you've added colored buttons to all the entities, and they don't cast light anywhere, which doesn't make sense. The lab especially illustrates this point: it looks like it's just an abandoned building made of blue glass: there's no actual light there. There's no glow anywhere around the scene... it's just dark.


7. I haven't seen it mentioned in any recent FFFs, so I thought I would add: Please add the ability to copy module emplacements just like copy/pasting recipes on assemblers, miners, etc. I feel that this has been overlooked and would add much Quality of Life. ATM, one has to completely remove buildings and replace in order to get modules in with bots.

Looking forward to 1.1!
Tutorials, wild playthroughs, and more! https://www.youtube.com/c/KatherineOfSkyGaming

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by conn11 »

KatherineOfSky wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:55 am
Lots of interesting changes. My thoughts:

(...)

7. I haven't seen it mentioned in any recent FFFs, so I thought I would add: Please add the ability to copy module emplacements just like copy/pasting recipes on assemblers, miners, etc. I feel that this has been overlooked and would add much Quality of Life. ATM, one has to completely remove buildings and replace in order to get modules in with bots.

Looking forward to 1.1!
This has been suggested in the forums already and multiple times, but this could be done via the upgrade planner.
via only placing the designated module on the right side
via only placing the designated module on the right side
module upgrade planner.jpg (51.39 KiB) Viewed 980 times
Modules already inserted should be replaced accordingly. Multiple or different load outs of modules could be done in the vertical right row.
This would also automatically give the ability to extract modules via the 1.0 feature of deupgrade.

Alternatively blueprints could have a toggeable section for modules similar to the module inserter from the Blueprint Flip and Turn from NovaM.
For both the announced updated Tips and Tricks for 1.1 would be a good place to inform.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by CptnPenguin »

So many awesome quality of life features! I exspecially love the belt dragging.
But I also really appreciate the option of turning these features of, it's always good to give the users more options!

Also bought the shirt, looks rad :D

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Dazrick »

I have never felt the need to comment on any if the FFF before as I have really like them and at most been indifferent to the changes with the idea that I'll see first and see if I like it. This is the first FFF where I disagree with the changes so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

The Flat UI
I think that this should remain as is. The logistics being in a tab right now is extremely clean and tidy.
Having it open all the time only really benefits those that aren't quite used to how it works, such as beginners, and those that constantly are changing their requests.
For everyone else, once we've set our requests, we don't really open that tab anymore. So having it 'hidden' is extremely useful. Keep both an as option as current and everybody wins. Removing the current tabbed version feels like a step backwards to me as well as way to make the UI feel more claustrophobic.

The Character Tab
Having all the character information converged in one place is extremely handy. The information is easier to read and I dont have to go to different parts if the UI to find it. While this is not much work in reality, it is noticible.
While I agree this tab is not used very often. It is very useful in what it provides. I think removing this would be a mistake. Duplication is weak reasoning for its removal. Afterall the hotbar is duplication since its unification with the player inventory. This has been kept for the obvious convenience. The player tab provides the same convenience. Just to a lesser degree.
A perfect example is when I was teaching my friend to play. He used this tab an awful lot as he just knew his character stuff was there. While he uses it a lot less now. It is an example in my opinion in why the tab should be kept. It's out if the way, but there if needed.

I think keeping the current UI, if at least only as an option, would be best.
As I said earlier. I feel both these changes are a step backwards not forward.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Manchineel »

Great friday facts. I cannot wait for the 1.1 patch with the trian stops limit.

i have a suggestion for the future.

I wish the radius of the lights be increased a tiny amounts to avoid the circle pattern above.
So it happends when you have the big electricity pole at maximum distance and then places lights at either side. Right not to avoid the circles i have to decrease the distance and dont use the maximum lenght between the poles, which is ridiculus so i dont do it.

Maybe increasing the light radius has some negative effect on another usecase in the game. Then i understand.

Otherwise, great game! My most played 2020.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Serenity »

T-A-R wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:08 pm
Also in the new screen the "connect to logistic network" option could draw more attention.
It's a bit weird given how much value they put on GUI consistency and usability otherwise. Those buttons look like they belong to the window control (minimize, close, etc.). But they are about configuring the inserter and so should be below the stack size option maybe

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Shingen »

character tab was rarely used, because it wasn't developed to its full potential

i used it to change the color of my character in a civilized way. rarely, but basically at least once every game.
i used it to see the actual proper numeric values of my batteries and shields.
i used it to enable/disable personal roboport and exoskeleton once i needed some space in the shortcut bar for modded buttons (frankly, there should be a higher limit there).

i would've used it to see my health if it was shown there, cuz frankly i don't know how to check it for yourself, other than using a console command. for some reason it's easier to check other people's health than your own.
i would've used it sometimes to enable/disable the belt immunity instead of removing it from the armor grid (not to mention that a couple of times i misclicked, and instead of opening the grid i picked the armor up, spilling hundreds of items onto the ground, yay).
i would've used it for some modded-in toggles if there were any.
and i think there was an another thing i had in mind, but i forgot. maybe i'll add it later.

i agree that this menu does not need to be a tab in the most-often-used window of the game, but i hope we'll retain all the functionality and possibly get more (like the one i proposed) under what i take to be the new character pop-up above the armor slot - although it seems you moved the color picking to inventory, and i don't see a good reason for that. just call it "inventory" instead of "character" and keep it for items only, so you need to scroll a bit less often.

+1 for leaving the logistics on the right side in the flat gui.

i agree the current new in-game alerts and arrows are a bit ugly, but it doesn't bother me.

the upgrade icons are...

character mining speed,
inventory slots (sharing the sub-icon with robot/inserter capacity? ehh)
research speed,
bullet dmg,
gun turret dmg,
bullet shooting speed,
artillery range?,
max following robots?,
train braking speed,

ghost life?,
logistics?,
logistic auto-trash? logistic trash slots?,
robot speed,
robot capacity,
stack inserter capacity,
regular inserter capacity,
character crafting speed,
character running speed,

character reach? but there's like 6 different reach-like bonuses,
deconstruction markers life?,
???,
ghosting zoom???,
selecting zoom???,
robot battery size,
research productivity?,
following robots life?,
ghost speed???

just what the hell is this last line?

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Deadlock989 »

Manchineel wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:19 am
Maybe increasing the light radius has some negative effect on another usecase in the game. Then i understand.
It does. If the light radius is increased then the distance that the game has to search "off screen" for light sources also has to increase, which means more work for the rendering engine, which means reduced performance for people with potato computers.

Mods (for example) can increase this light source search distance. If it's done carefully most folks who have any kind of gaming PC probably won't see much (or any) performance difference.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by pleegwat »

Could the belt line tool be combined with setting cursor size to lay multiple parallel belts at the same time?

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by Shadow_Man »

Just another variant to character inventory/logistics/crafting tabs: make its order configurable in game options.

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Re: Friday Facts #363 - 1.1 is getting close

Post by tamanous »

Respective belt changes:

Why are belts and rails placed differently? I imagine placing belts the way I place rails very attractive.
There once was a mod that did this

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/prg/beltplanner 0.16
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/beltplanner-patched 0.17

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