Friday Facts #73 - Minds versus bytes.

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dee-
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by dee- »

Just make sure all new game buildings are perfectly rotate-able (remember turret-gate :mrgreen: )

keyboardhack
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by keyboardhack »

The current end game in the FF doesn't sound like anything that ifts with factorio. Sure you can slap some history on it to tie it together with the rest of factorio, but it sound like the end game is gonna be a completely new game that doesn't have much to do with factorio. Factorio is about making a badass factory and kill stuff, not making spaceships and rescue stranded civilians. Would be much more usefull if you could use to rockets to make small colonies on asteoroids and automatically return the resources with somekind of spaceship network.
Waste of bytes : P

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by ColdPrototype »

I don't want to abandon my factory, I want to expand it. It'll be a serious emotional blow to the player if they just leave behind all the work they did for the last 8-30 hours.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by ataaron »

The Rocket Lacks serious smoke effects

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by betlor »

Rather than building a ship, wouldn't it be more plausible to build a multilayered factory, which builds the ships? If you add an option that you can send special resources from the planet below upward to your station you can even incorporate the gameplay beforehand. The downside of this resource sending would be that you have to fill the rocket witch some high tech, really expansive rocket fuel. That way you can even limit the space of the station without limiting the complexity. Further on you could sand back new materials only found in space rocks to refine and build stuff in your old home base. This might even call for a new kind of drone.

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SuperSandro2000
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by SuperSandro2000 »

Thats all? Only the spaceship? I like the idea but I think this is a bit less.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by ssilk »

@betlor: what do you mean with a multilayered factory?

But it's a good question: are the parts of the ship built on planet surface or in space or is it a mix of both?

@Sandro: only the spaceship, isn't that enough content to go for Steam?
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by Phillip_Lynx »

I like the idea from the devs. And come on, it is a short an brief description of a planned feature.

As I know the devs, they will put it so together that it fits in the factorio style and will be much fun. Up to now I was never disappointed by the things the devs added :).

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by imajor »

keyboardhack wrote:The current end game in the FF doesn't sound like anything that ifts with factorio. Sure you can slap some history on it to tie it together with the rest of factorio, but it sound like the end game is gonna be a completely new game that doesn't have much to do with factorio.
I feel the opposite. The plan for the spaceship sounds even better than what I was hoping for. Factorio is a lovely game, but with unlimited space on the planet, it feels a little bit like there is no challenge. On the forums I can see many interesting factories built by gamers, but I think most of those were not made because the game really forced the player to do that, just for fun. So I hope that the ship platform will be a limited space, where it will be a challenge to squeeze as much as possible. Also I'm hoping that the shape of the available space will vary from game to game (could even be random), so that the player could not always build the same stuff, or clone someone else's solution from the internet.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by hoho »

imajor wrote:Also I'm hoping that the shape of the available space will vary from game to game (could even be random), so that the player could not always build the same stuff, or clone someone else's solution from the internet.
Perhaps the spaceship should depend somehow on the choices player makes during on-planet game play :)

E.g if they pollute a TON they'd be encountered by more hostile environments and/or their space platform would be less efficient thus requiring more fuel to do the same tasks. Though they'd be able to harvest more resources on the way.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by betlor »

@ ssilk: My intention with a multilayered factorio is: you have a basic building and it changes shape and funtionality dependent on what kind of buildings you use as an extension. Therefore the original “feeling” is conserved and you get a new concept. It still needs resources and it is not intended as a factorio that auto crafts everything it needs on the way. Instead it changes its output dependent on its shape and adjacent modules.

As far as it seems you could even integrate the space gameplay in the orignal idea of the throne room. I still like the concept and hope that it will be integrated in the game later on or at least in a mod.

@hoho: I think your idear is realy sound. You could even expend it on the usage of drones. If you get over a specific level of drones on the ground, you’ll encounter von neuman drones, which are way more brutal than the otherwise hostile space creatures. For what all I know they could even trie to land on the planet to establish a “coloni” of their own.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by artemonster »

This is a very nice idea you have here, @kovarex, but I must warn you: you MUST give additional layer of "abstraction" to the player in order to keep game fun. What I mean by that:
I suppose you will need at least few rocket launches to succeed. In order to do that, you will need a shitloads of resources, which in turn force you to make comlex large train networks, linking expansions. Now currently,
a) monitoring expansions
b) laying down train networks
ARE SUPER TEDIOUS TASKS. So please, don't make the endgame a grind and add resource monitor mod to the game.
To gasp the rail network laying issue I suppose you could launch an "orbital command" sattelite, which reveals map at bigger rates and let you construct via remotely-deployable roboport networks jsut like in "creative mode", without character, or even by large blueprint.
Please, consider this properly. Bootstrapping yourself and factory into new abstraction layers and making complexer tasks is what factorio about, but you need to keep "low level" stuff at that point AWAY.
Thank you for your awesome work!

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by kel »

hello.

i guess theres two ways that i think this is going to be implemented:
1. replacement for rocket defence (already adressed by others).
2.a way to transport things between worlds.

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Xterminator
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by Xterminator »

Wow guys... I can not get over how awesome that picture of the rocket and launch platform is! I could state it for minutes on end it is so awesome. :) Here is my take on endgame, and some ideas:

I like the idea you have presented so far, but I agree with some other people that the rocket and the platform for it should take a huge amount of resources to create so it forces you to do more with your factory and secure lots more resources etc... :D

Now another idea I have which I think would be amazing and super fun. (To me at least) is to still go with the colonist ship idea and such. But instead of ending the game there, you have to continuely supply the colonists materials until they have enough to complete the construction of their home base or whatever. So in my mind it would go like this... You launch the initial ship to go to orbit and pick up the colonists or whatever like is planned, but then you have to keep launching more rockets (perhaps smaller ones) to supply the colonists with materials for building. As time goes on, their demand increases and if you fail to keep up with supply, them you fail the objective and have to start from the launch of the initial ship again. Perhaps even if you fail you get upgrades or something like you mentioned so it isn't just an endless loop of failing lol
But this way it let's you still use your factory and continue playing with it for a good while, but with an actual goal to work towards that forces you to expand and such. Instead of just abandoning the factory you spent so much time on.
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by Hindenobyl »

I guess I have more of a question than a criticism. How does the rescue the colonist ending leave room for expansion? I'm struggling to see it.

With the previous idea of getting to a galactic market, I could easily see things that could be added later. The inclusion of AI players that are also getting to the galactic market that you have crush either economically wal-mart style or bomb into non existance or a combination of the two, and seems to be easily adaptable for a pvp multiplayer mode. This is only one example of a direction I could see the game going either as part of the main game or a dlc expansion. I'm struggling to see what could be added beyond rescue the colonists. Maybe someone else can come up with an idea?

Incoherent ramblings aside, I do like the graphics for the launch platform and the rocket and the multiplayer has been far less frustrating to play with the last couple updates, so keep up the good work there.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by SHiRKiT »

That's the coolest endgame content I've ever see.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by ludsoe »

Dunno bout you guys... But im more excited about modding possibility's that will come out of the new endgame content.

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by Acius »

I'm excited for a space part of the game. It's not totally clear from the comments so far, so I thought I'd talk about the bits that I'm excited about.

I really want the surface factory to stay relevant during the space phase of the game. I think the surface should provide a supply line for getting things to space. This should be difficult at first and become easier as you research space tech.

I think space should add a unique resource--maybe you can manufacture zero-G products while in orbit, or maybe a new kind of research lab, or maybe a new kind of science pack, I don't know. Perhaps you can mine uranium from asteroids. So you have to get into space using difficult-to-use technology, but once you're there, you can use the new resource to make better technology.

I think it would be really cool to have a space platform that you can walk/float on. Unlike the surface, you have to 'build the ground'--you can't place machines on it until you've created a platform on which to put them, so you're highly motivated to find efficient layouts, because it's expensive to bring things from the surface. That's one reason it's important to not have iron/water/oil/copper/coal in space--you're creating a new form of scarcity (supply line from surface), then automating it away over time (more and bigger rocket launches, space elevator, rail gun launcher, teleport pad...)

Powering the platform in space also seems like a very important problem. Steam engines should not work at all in space. Solar panels work but use a lot of space (and maybe wear out). Having a new kind of compact power supply would be very valuable. On the upside, there's no day/night cycle in orbit, so solar panels would at least be reliable...

As for building ships and rescuing colonists, that sounds like a fun thing to do, but of course it has to stay in the spirit of building factories to do it. Perhaps the platform itself is the ship (attach engines?), and that's what does the rescue run? Perhaps you have a kind of large drone (like a bigger logistics bot) that you have to build, fuel, arm, upgrade, and send? Perhaps you have to build space-radars so that you can detect the colonist ship(s), and you can only send out ships to rescue them after you have found them? Perhaps there are multiple colony ships, so you can do the run game many times?

I also imagine that the platforms would need defending from something hostile, though maybe the hostile thing is asteroid collisions. Or perhaps the aliens have learned how to get into space too, and they are not happy with you...

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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by n9103 »

Don't know if it's useful, but I got a distinct impression of the Launchpads from Outpost 2.
Had my heart broken today, as discovered that OpenOutpost (a la OpenRA) was a thing.. for a few months, and has since been dead for over a year. :-(
Last edited by n9103 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday Facts #73 Minds versus bytes.

Post by RaviorMetal »

Thats great! I love how the first idea evolved to this one!

I'm looking forward for this! But take your time, nobody expects anybody to be creative and productive in no time. ;) :)

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