Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Xterminator »

You guys are great! I'm so glad you decide to take the feedback we all gave and rethink and redesign the beacon. :)

Overall I like the new design much more! I saw a few people saying they didn't like the messy wires and pipes in it, but I actually love that because I think it fits with the Factorio theme and story that the engineer is just throwing things together with the parts they have and nothing is put together perfectly.

I do have concern or complaint and it's in regards to the tower, and this mentioned in the FFF:
This way we would change its idea from a tower to an underground electronic/powerful entity, and try to explain that the effect is being transmitted underground by cables.
It seems like you are trying to present two contradicting ideas here. Saying that it transmits the effect underground but also adding a tower with visuals on it that look like it might be transmitting through the tower is a bit weird to me. I will admit though, it visually looks much better and more complete with a tower rather than just a hole in the ground, but still odd. I think the tower is much too spiky and almost weapon looking. I think something more like a radio or cell phone tower or even an iteration on the spinning dish on the original version would look much better.

The fluid mixing and flushing implementation is fantastic though, thank you! :)
Overall very happy, and great work guys, but just thought I'd give my full thoughts on the new design.
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by chris13524 »

On the pipes, has it been considered that adjacent pipes of differing fluids should just not connect? This way you could run parallel pipelines of differing fluids without needing an air gap/weird undergrounds.

I like the ability to flush the pipeline. And if people don't want to flush the whole line, they can just disconnect the pipe somewhere.

And since pipes now have a UI, what if you had four arrows enabling/disabling the connections to adjacent pipes? I am already formulating ideas in my head on a simple algo that would enable intuitive default connections (one being they don't connect to different fluids).

And why are pipes above-ground anyway? If you can walk over transport belts, why not pipes as well? I.e. they would be mostly submerged, but have their tops peak up above the soil. It has always annoyed me how we have these pipes, but we just make them all undergrounds to avoid connecting with adjacent and allow walking over.
Last edited by chris13524 on Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Lubricus »

V453000 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 pm
DOSorDIE wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:58 pm
Someone played Satisfactory ... the have the flush too.
The new beacons look nice but the ALT icons i need or i miss something.

When we are by moduls ... How i get moduls in a becon when there is no in it?
By hand ... maybe i play the wrong game.
Look at MOD ModuleInserter ... that is really needed by default.
Just build beacons with modules by blueprints? I personally just use a single-beacon blueprint for this. For upgrading you can easily use the upgrade planner, too.
That don't work if you are "upgrading" your old stuff and add an mix off modules in assemblers. Then you have ether open the machines and add each module by hand or remove the machines and add a new blueprint. I use the copy-paste module mod that makes so copy-paste assembler settings also changes the module settings. It's a nice non intrusive mod that should be in the base-game.
A way to upgrade module-content with blueprints would also be great. I agree that it's not a big deal with beacons where you always put in 2 speed modules and is a late game entity.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Koub »

I think you did a great job in redesigning the new beacon, not only from a design standpoint, but from the reflexion you had behind : good looks must not be at the expense of overall readability.
It's a very smart move I don't see often, and I feel this must be stressed.

I hope you will consider reapplying it to the mining drill redesign we were presented last week : while the new mining drill is quite sexy on its own, out of context, it gives less readable result when in context. The old not-so-sexy one gave a more readable result, it was easier to see at a glance what was going on at the mining outpost.
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by bman212121 »

I like the new beacon, it's definitely a lot better than the old. It does feel a bit busy with all of the little copper wires on it, but overall it's much better. I do like that it's sunk into the ground as when you look at the comparison of the original vs the new you can really tell how distracting the old beacons were. Definitely a welcome change and glad you guys took another try at it.

The fluid removal button is definitely a long time coming, and it will be of great use! Completely glad to have that as it should help even more with some mods than even just in the base game.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Lubricus »

I like the new beacon design and the thought about how it looks when zoomed out. For me it's more important that the entities and items don't look to "bussy" and is easy to recognize zoomed out that that they look great fully zoomed in.
The non mixing fluids for inputs off assemblers/chemplants in only annoying because the inputs have never been possible to mix fluids.
I have in a few cases been forced the put down the entity set the right recipe/rotate and then copy-paste it into the right spot because otherwise the mix prevention stop me to place it in the right place. You can't rotate entities before setting the recipe and sometimes you can't set the recipe before rotating them because the non mixing mechanic.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by kitt159 »

This design looks much better than the previous one. What will the destroyed beacon look like?

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Unknow0059 »

The beacon redesign and the simplicity of the fluid mixing fix please my World.

The thing I like the most about the beacon redesign is that it's low contrast.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by eViLegion »

A couple of questions:

Will the flush respect the direction of pumps, e.g. not flow backwards through them at all, and not flow forwards if they're offline?
And is there going to be any mechanism to connect flushing to the circuit network, or automate the flushing in some other way?

If so, this flushing solution will actually be a potentially useful mechanism to allow the same pipe to carry multiple fluids at different times. As a game mechanic I think this could be brilliant.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by MasterBuilder »

I love the new look. I didn't like the big red things, for much the same reasons you've pointed out. Glad you've redesigned them.

Would it be possible to prep the graphics for it to support displaying up to 4 modules?
I know vanilla beacons are limited to 2, but if they had room for 4 module on the graphics, it would be easy for modded beacons to know those without much graphics work.
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Blacky007 »

eViLegion wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:28 pm
A couple of questions:

Will the flush respect the direction of pumps, e.g. not flow backwards through them at all, and not flow forwards if they're offline?
And is there going to be any mechanism to connect flushing to the circuit network, or automate the flushing in some other way?

If so, this flushing solution will actually be a potentially useful mechanism to allow the same pipe to carry multiple fluids at different times. As a game mechanic I think this could be brilliant.
THIS !

best way would be to have a valve that has only one direction! - would make it much easier for large layouts.
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by plepper1 »

This is a much better design for the beacon.

Also, the purge button is great!

Great work!

I'm not sure if it's good or bad that I'm not the only one thinking of ways to multiplex pipes now...

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by jvaler »

I love the new beacon design! Much better than the old one and fits very well with the atmosphere of the game, dull and polluted industry. However the bright colors of the yellow assemblers in the demo slider seem off now that the beacons are duller and it makes the assembler feel out of place. I'm not a very old player so I don't know if the T3 assembler is already updated to HD or not, but I suspect that will be changed in the future. Great job!!

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by KatherineOfSky »

I like the new beacon design: it is visually very subtle and give the attention the factories. However, I don't agree with removing ALT mode for beacons. Removing that visual consistency of seeing them straightforward, in a black box, is essential to checking a field quickly to see if all / or the correct modules are in place in a high-spm factory.

The asymmetrical design is "cute", but not functional for actually looking at a field quickly. I propose keeping the new design, but reintegrating ALT mode. Not having ALT mode is likely to cause new players to think something is wrong with their game, since again, inconsistency in the way information is presented. (Having to use a mod to add this essential feature of the game back in seems very odd to me. Perhaps make it a checkbox in the UI menu?)

The pipe flushing feature is AWESOME! (I still wish there was no fluid mixing prevention since it is a MAJOR pain when copy/pasting new arrays and changing the recipe ... the game still thinks there is fluid in pipes where there is not ... >.> )


Thank you for all the hard work you do! I am so excited for Release!
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Philip017 »

wow a flush button, i feel like this probably should have been in the game ages ago, so many pipes I've had to totally remove to fix one bad placement. at least the fluid mixing prevention has helped, but now i place buildings and cant select a recipe because of the fluid mixing prevention logic, then have to set it somewhere else and figure out why it won't set the recipe.

i believe that with pumps now you can suck every last drop out of a pipe and clean it that way too, but it still does not allow any other type of fluid inside that pipe. if the delete fluid button works the way i think it does, it deletes every drop, even any in pumps and tanks that are attached to the pipe you are touching. this could be something that could cause a major lag spike in multiplayer and also be a griefing issue. it would probably be a good idea to make an option to disallow this function in multiplayer. as you have with the deconstruction planner from map view.

as for the beacon design, i do like the exposed module visualization and i know that having that on other structures that accept modules would be a bit much, but i can definitely dream, it does really look amazing. the pointy thing at the top however is a little more distracting and would probably be better if it wasn't so aggressively so, perhaps a pair of lines that are shaped in a V to give an electric arc, like a jacobs ladder feel to it, perhaps even spin the V in a circle very slowly so you can still see the arc climb the ladder. yeah yeah i know dreaming, but a thought.

thanks again for making this amazing game, and dont worry about that it is still in early access, though you wanted it to be out 3 years ago.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by T-A-R »

You can really see a lot of the feedback in the new design. I think it fits the place much better. I am happy for you that the set of new designs is completing.

While design demands are certainly fullfilled, it feels somewhat flat, almost like you can drive a tank over it no problem. (warning: insta-ban:p). Only the octagonal shape reminds to the bulky precessor.

For the minimalesk approch i would shrink the holes a tiny bit, so the stripes of asphalt in between get a bit thicker. The needle feels a bit clean and fragile compared to the base. It could be be more like a small [big-electric-pole], with magical broadcasters on it. Something to give a tiny bit of extra body.

More important, an effect of the round shape is that the modules look unusually orientated diagonal. The sockets itself are gorgeous sockets (almost a waste to fill them), but very strangely positioned. I would prefer frontally mounted modules
, (ideally meeting up alt mode. perhaps in a combinator shaped socket it they need to be raised to a comfortable working level).


Personally i am just way to grown with the old sprites, simply due to playtime: the rotating thingies will live on in my mind xD Anyways your hard work is appreciated, and wish a lot of luck and succes on Le Grande Release Party!

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by chris13524 »

KatherineOfSky wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:04 pm
However, I don't agree with removing ALT mode for beacons. Removing that visual consistency of seeing them straightforward, in a black box, is essential to checking a field quickly to see if all / or the correct modules are in place in a high-spm factory.

The asymmetrical design is "cute", but not functional for actually looking at a field quickly. I propose keeping the new design, but reintegrating ALT mode. Not having ALT mode is likely to cause new players to think something is wrong with their game, since again, inconsistency in the way information is presented. (Having to use a mod to add this essential feature of the game back in seems very odd to me. Perhaps make it a checkbox in the UI menu?)
Agreed. I'd prefer the alt info to show for beacons over not.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Blacky007 »

TyrHeimdal wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:50 pm

Image

I like this far right idea best. It makes the modules really pop out and are easy to see.
me too !
this would fit better
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Hiladdar »

What I do not like about the new beacon is:

1. What about mods which have more then 2 modules in them. The current beacon tends to display that much more cleanly.

2. The module on the beacon in the top right corner is difficult to see.

3. The internal wires, and the plug in ports for the modules are too exposed. Normally I would expect to see some sort of dust environmental protection on such an electronic device. The amount of intricacy of the new beacon design may be a bit too detracting and detracting from other entities within the game.

What I do like about the new beacon is:

1. It has a lower in vertical height, therefore does not obscure other entities.

2. it is pretty, and shows a lot of effort went into designing it.

My recommendation to take a second look at the beacon graphic, keep the good, but don't throw out what works extremely well with the old beacon.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Carnivale »

I think the new beacon looks like a remnant of a building, or just a garbage dump. It looks confusing and feels out of place because it's trying to be two different things at the same time.

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