Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

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Hiladdar
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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by Hiladdar »

I usually play with the sound so low, I can barely hear it, so unless it the sound is so annoying and distracting, that it annoys or distracts me from the game, I'm ok with what ever ends up as sound.

Regarding the colors, what is most important for me, is that the colors convey useful information. I'm ok with some of them being a bit off, as long as they are relatively ascetically appealing.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by deef0000dragon1 »

ya know, one of the best things that minecraft ever did was it's texture pack system.

I know that you can add mods to change the textures and stuff, but I feel like the lack of support for (or at least prevalence of) client only texture (and or sound) packs is a massive shortfall of the game. It would be even better if the game included several default texture/sound packs. Grunge,Cartoon,Clean,Factory etc. Then you wouldn't have the issue of people not liking the sound design as much as they could either A: change to a different default sound pack, or B: download a custom sound pack.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by stootachtig »

Those new sound are really weird. Never really used combat robotics. but I never would expect them to sound like this.

As for the belts... They sound more intrusive than I can remember, and that's not a good thing.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by <NO_NAME> »

I like the new red and blue belt sounds. The yellow one sounds more like a computer fan than such a big mechanical contraption. I would add some clatter of metal parts or some screeching. (Although, screeching would probably be too annoying.)
I really like the idea that blue belt is so silent. I mean, it should be, taking into account how much lubricant it takes to make one. That sound gives impression of being much more tech-advances than the rickety yellow belt.
I would even go so far as making burner machines loud and rumbling to emphasize the technical advancement.

I don't play much with combat robots but I like the idea of sounds harmonizing with each other. Do you try to do something like the laser receivers in chamber 20 of Portal 2 single player campaign? (That's the best appliance of that of idea I could recall.)
It would be cool to make sounds of all machines harmonize with each other, especially if they are often placed close to each other.
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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by CaveGrinder »

i like the idea of harmony between sounds of different entities - it makes me wonder if other entity groups that typically occur together could be in harmony (e.g. assembler+inserter+belt). of course when overdone there would be too many permutations.
that being said, i noticed that my (cheap) desktop speaker is unable to produce the sound of the third placed robot. only when plugging in headphones i could hear it.
regarding new belt sounds - for me it is hard to say which one is better; i think it would have been good to include the old sounds for comparison in the FFF (i already switched to 0.18 and would have to downgrade to compare it). I do remember however playing muted some of the time in the past <= 0.17 although not sure exactly why. maybe the busy factory didn't align well with music i chose as background? so i appreciate the work on the sounds.
(There is just no way that the music wouldn't get repetitive post 1000h game-time, compared to infinite different youtube/spotity songs. From time to time i also play with factorio music because i actually like it).

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by ssilk »

Opinions about the sounds are either pro or contra here. That’s natural. And I see that as a good sign.

I heard the examples now about 10 times and I must say I’m not sure about them. Sound is a lot of taste and a lot of what I was used to. What I surely can say from the crafting aspect the new ones are a lot and measurable better.

To hear how the sound work in the game I need to play a game with them.

And then I can post an opinion. But - it’s not a good idea to make an opinion from 30 seconds of sound. (*) You can make that with music you want to hear or not, but not with sound. :)

For example: What might be an aspect that the sounds collide with other music - especially the robot sounds. That is normally not the case... but - as said - I need to try that out. Or that the belt sound is still too sharp. Not sure about it. Sounds are difficult. For example : It might be a good idea to have the belts relatively sharp and harsh when you stand in front of them and the belt runs orthogonal to you. But when it runs away or to me it is damped, because of the rubber. Or that the belts - because they are on ground - are only sharp and loud one tile away. Two tiles away it is low-pass-filtered and much more silent. But low sounds can be heard very far. Just two examples of what I would try...

So this is too soon to make any opinion.

But I’m super excited how the robots will sound, when they are flying around you. With the “chords” and Doppler-effect it might sound quite interesting...


(*) when it goes around sound Wube could try to make more realistic examples.
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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by KatherineOfSky »

I think that belt sounds at all are not a good thing. Belts are everywhere, and having extra noise created by them is just too much. I don't even want to be in my factory any more when I hear that constant background noise. I hope the belt sounds are removed completely. Their silence was very restful and relaxing to the game.

I've been playing a bit with the new versions' sound. Some sounds are very weird, but I am trying to integrate them into my Factorio experience. Some are really nice, like the variations on tree chopping.

But others, like the UI sound when clicking to make products, and clicking on the hotbar are just incredibly irritating. Too much noise! (Please remove this!)

I also miss the noise for deconstruction, the one that sounds like a sort hollow ceramic pot being clunked. (Like for deconstructing furnaces, etc.)

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by MEOWMI »

Meanwhile, I do hope a sound for rotating structures will be added... It makes so much sense and it helps avoiding accidental rotations.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by individuo_enlatado »

I've got pretty mixed feelings about this sound direction. First, the belts - the yellow one is fine, better than the old sounds. The red and blue belt suffers from the same problem as the old sound design: its the same thing, just faster and high-pitched it seems. In my opinion it would sound much better if the yellow, red and blue belt complemented eachother, like the yellow one could have a more pronounced engine rattling sound (https://youtu.be/v1k8U5OzNWA?t=252 ; https://youtu.be/9Ib01jM111o?t=141), while the red could sound more like the new yellow belt sound now, and the blue one could sound more like a electic engine, for example in this video here, the sound this engine makes while it isn't running yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJNqpcsvlqI.

The idea about the belts is that each one has its individual sound characteristics, but if you place them together they will form a new unique sound, each combination would create a different sound. In my opinion this would make it sound way less annoying, and would add a lot to the whole "factory orchestra" thing.

Now, the bots sounds just bad in my opinion. It's literally a sinth note, it doesn't sound like a flying death machine. I'd much rather have them as something closer Bioshock's flying robots tbh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLFOIOyZvo

Much more expressive, it has a character to it. The new bot sounds way too... one dude holding a key note on a keyboard, the idea of creating a harmony out of their sound is great but honestly, this is just way too simple, it really doesn't sound anything like a machine it just sounds like a instrument.

Is it possible to add sounds to when it spots a enemy, when it spawns or kills something, lose track of target etc? You know, make the machine express itself!
Last edited by individuo_enlatado on Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by conn11 »

individuo_enlatado wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:53 pm
{...}
Now, the bots sounds just bad in my opinion. It's literally a sinth note, it doesn't sound like a flying death machine. I'd much rather have them as something closer Bioshock's flying robots tbh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLFOIOyZvo

Much more expressive, it has a character to it. The new bot sounds way too... one dude holding a key note on a keyboard, the idea of creating a harmony out of their sound is great but honestly, this is just way too simple, it really doesn't sound anything like a machine it just sounds like a instrument.

Is it possible to add sounds to when it spots a enemy, when it spawns kills something, lose track of something etc? You know, make the machine express itself!
I‘m unsure how good something like this would actually interact with the already implemented combat sounds. Like PLD, or all of the biter sounds. It sounds cool, but the mosquitoe noise is quite eary. Furthermore sounds fore spotting or losing track of an enemy would be quite pointless, given how combat robotics are implemented. This wouldn’t convey meaningful information.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by individuo_enlatado »

conn11 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:13 pm
individuo_enlatado wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:53 pm
{...}
Now, the bots sounds just bad in my opinion. It's literally a sinth note, it doesn't sound like a flying death machine. I'd much rather have them as something closer Bioshock's flying robots tbh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLFOIOyZvo

Much more expressive, it has a character to it. The new bot sounds way too... one dude holding a key note on a keyboard, the idea of creating a harmony out of their sound is great but honestly, this is just way too simple, it really doesn't sound anything like a machine it just sounds like a instrument.

Is it possible to add sounds to when it spots a enemy, when it spawns kills something, lose track of something etc? You know, make the machine express itself!
I‘m unsure how good something like this would actually interact with the already implemented combat sounds. Like PLD, or all of the biter sounds. It sounds cool, but the mosquitoe noise is quite eary. Furthermore sounds fore spotting or losing track of an enemy would be quite pointless, given how combat robotics are implemented. This wouldn’t convey meaningful information.
The point of these sounds wouldn't be to convey meaninful information, but to "give personality" to the machine, you see. Make it more expressive, turn it into a character with "personality" and all that.

I agree that the mosquitoe like noise from Bioshock's flying robots wouldn't fit here, but its just a example of something that isn't "dude holding one key on a keyboard" design. It actually sounds like a flying robot in Bioshock, and I think that a more "old rattling engine" sounding robot fits more with the whole Dieselpunk aesthetic of Factorio than these sinth robot sounds.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by Unknow0059 »

For example we now have the listener position on the centre of the screen by default
...Where was it before?

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by IronCartographer »

Unknow0059 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:46 pm
For example we now have the listener position on the centre of the screen by default
...Where was it before?
At your character. The change makes it so that map view gives you the ability to hear things at a distance.

Somewhat concerned about the possibility of missing out on important sound next to the player after this change, and in a way it actually breaks immersion...but I can see an argument for both sides. A good compromise might be to play the sounds from both places, with the nearby ones simply dampened a bit (relative to the current-view from the map)...but there's an argument against cluttering things up that way as well.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by Solinya »

Now that I've had the chance to actually play a game with the new sounds, I have some mixed feelings.

In many cases, the new sounds are an improvement. I like the changes to nuclear reactor setups, accumulators (especially accumulators which were incredibly noisy pre-0.18) and some other things. I dislike the red belt noise (too much of a constant whine), the small biter noise (it's really obvious to tell it's a loop, and having three echoing loops continuously playing in combat is annoying), and the new alert sound for a destroyed object (I honestly can barely hear it, and I'm playing wave defense where it can happen often). Some of the others I'm unsure about like the shotgun and the train.

I also don't like the change to reduce volume based on zoom level. I understand the reasoning - it makes the sound match the view - but in reality, it actually makes it harder to drive. Hitting a rock at max zoom level is almost inaudible, which makes driving across a desert (where the rocks can blend in) more of a pain.

The change to play sounds based on map view is also a bit mixed. It's nice when you're zooming in on parts of the factory and your giant machine setup is no longer silent. A little odd when you're standing next to something that used to be loud (rocket, artillery) while looking at other things. And also strange when you can zoom in on a biter base in fog of war and hear biter noises (which I imagine means it could mess with pvp mode).

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by bleistift2 »

deef0000dragon1 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:46 pm
[…] would it be possible to add […] settings where we can set the colors for different things on the map ourselves?
Not only would it allow for users to customize the map to their liking, making what they view as important more prominent, but it might also increase accessibility by allowing colorblind users to adjust it so it is useful for them too.
I would really like to second this. I believe the suggested color setting are a thing that’s relatively easy to implement, but makes reading the map so much easier. If it is not, then I would like to suggest using the color red less – that’s the one which bothers me the most – or at least shade it.

Currently it denotes pollution as well as enemies and (confusingly) biters. That means that you cannot make out biters in a heavily polluted area. It’s also hard not to have a heart attack when you see a big blob of red near your base and take a second to remember that it’s just the turrets you’ve placed 10 minutes ago.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by Tigre Demon »

Personally I do not enjoy the new sound of belts nor the sound of bots (logi/constru). They are just ... weird for me and generate some constant noise ?
I never used the combat robots, I never understood their utility.

As for the rest of the factory, it does feel a bit more like it such as inserters or machines so I think those are very good.

Overall I think this is very good for Factorio to have someone that works on sound !

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by Mgis09 »

My smallest bit of opinion is that I don't like whats recently happening. I dunno why but something is missing and something is added unnecessarily.

Keep up the good work guys! ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by ssilk »

Adding this to my above post:
I was listening a lot more to the new sounds now (in the FFF and in game) and what I’m thinking yet (can still change a lot) that the sounds are too synthetic.

What I’m thinking about conveyor belt sounds for example can be listened in some of the sounds I found here:

https://www.soundsnap.com/tags/conveyor

I clicked through the examples. Non of them would fit for Factorio, but what I found are these noises, that I would await from a belt sound, that is so present and important for Factorio.

- the squeaking, crunching, sticky noise of the gumm from the belt on the metallic rolls (can be heard very well in example 1 and 2)
- the noise of the rotating rolls themselves (very rhythmic)
- the “plates” or segments of the belt (also rhythmic, but completely different rhythm)
- the electric motor of the belt (ok, well, in Factorio the belts don’t need that ;) )
- things running on the belt (left to right/ right to left - there is an example with a length of 2:24 on that page which was really astonishing me)
- belt sounds different depending on how much is loaded on it (similar to above)


And I would also think about this: when running along the belt, those sound mix differently. There is one part which has louder rolls for example, in curves the segments are louder, some rolls are more sticky. And so on.

Maybe it’s not possible to implement the belt sound like so, but that’s not what I try to explain. What I tried to say is that for such an important sound like the belts it’s not enough to make a loop of 1-2 seconds, which is both: interesting - without filtering too much out from the higher frequencies - and still non-repeating. ;)
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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by Deadlock989 »

I really like the new bots. They should totally stay like that.

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Re: Friday Facts #332 - More sounds & Map color tweaks

Post by bobucles »

I'm wondering if the belts could have unique sounds based on their contents. So for example if a belt is filled with ore it would have a sound of dirty rumbling gravel. Higher tech items might cleaner sounds like tapping metal or plastic. I'm not a sound designer so I dunno how cute or clever it would be.

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