Friday Facts #307 - 0.17 stable candidate

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Friday Facts #307 - 0.17 stable candidate

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:33 pm

Yijare wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:50 pm
[...]
Complex? You give us the highest (and thus most complex) thing without even trying to refine the stuff. just put in an be gone. Why should I even want to go to advanced processing when that is giving me crap? Yes I need that stuff to process further along but heavy and light oil are producsts that separate before petrolium. thats what all the outrage is mainly about. logical flaws.
[...]
As already mentioned in the threads over the last weeks, Heavy Oil is clearly higher tech than Petroleum Gas (considering what you do with them).

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eradicator wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:46 am
[...]
Yijare wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:02 am
eradicator wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:17 am
Never seen a factorio pipe "freeze" in place refusing to transport anything, got examples? In fact i don't remember ever having pipe troubles in factorio except too slow throughput.
Oh, the pipes can have that behaviour in 0.15 to late 0.16. Happend before to me. because there was 0.0000000051 of a fluid left in it, that didn't belonged to the fluid that should be pumped through it. Thats the 'broken' fluid mechanics in Factorio in a nutshell.
Fluid mixing has never worked properly in factorio, and as of 0.17 we can assume that it was probably never intended to, a pitty, but not broken design. But ONI forces you to mix even though it doesn't work. If i wanted to argue "realism" i'd say that 0.00000001 fluid remaining is actually correct. If you pump crude-oil through a pipe you can't expect to be pumping crystal-clear water two minutes later. I guess the "bug" was that it somethines actually went to proper 0.0. Has anyone confirmed that in 0.17 the pipes actually always retrun to proper 0.0, or always keep a fraction?
The annoying situation in 0.16 happened when you tried to pump out fluid from pipes, and the pipes closest to the fluid went to 0, while pipes farther from the pump stayed at 0.0..1 - therefore preventing you from ever being able to pump that fluid out.
(IIRC this situation didn't always happen ? Maybe it was related to branching pipes ?)
I doubt that this issue keeps happening in 0.17, there's probably some logic to pipe fluid through those pipes that have 0 fluid, but are still assigned to one specific fluid.
I haven't properly checked it though...

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Dominik wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:46 am
BlueTemplar wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:06 pm
[...]
(Liters for the unit because IMHO it's a bit ridiculous to try to guess what the unit is - either from water calorific capacity - which works quite differently from real one when taking steam into account - or from pipe size, which is obviously limited by graphics/legibility issues... so might as well go with the usual unit !)
[...]
About the flow speed - calculating fluid unit from heat capacity does make sense, but I don't think the heat capacity was designed based on that at all - I think it was designed simply to work well with the rest of the game. So I would base the unit rather on the size of fluid related stuff. E.g. one barrel holds 50 units, real barrel has some 160l, so there you have 1 unit ~3l. Then if a pipe has diameter of 0.8m and length 1m and holds 100 units, you get a unit of about 2l. With such numbers the throughput would also be reasonable.
It's also about how fluid units have been rebalanced multiple times (for gameplay reasons) : heat capacity doubled one time, another time all fluid units multiplied by 10 across the board... (or was that divided by 10?)

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Re: Friday Facts #307 - 0.17 stable candidate

Post by Dominik » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:27 am

BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:33 pm
The annoying situation in 0.16 happened when you tried to pump out fluid from pipes, and the pipes closest to the fluid went to 0, while pipes farther from the pump stayed at 0.0..1 - therefore preventing you from ever being able to pump that fluid out.
(IIRC this situation didn't always happen ? Maybe it was related to branching pipes ?)
I doubt that this issue keeps happening in 0.17, there's probably some logic to pipe fluid through those pipes that have 0 fluid, but are still assigned to one specific fluid.
I haven't properly checked it though...
The current mechanism is that if a fluid system contains no filter and the fluid amount in every fluidbox is under 0.05 fluid, then the whole system is cleared.

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Re: Friday Facts #307 - 0.17 stable candidate

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:43 pm

Thanks for clearing that up ! (Again..?)

"Filter"? Like a connected assembling machine with a set up recipe ?

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Re: Friday Facts #307 - 0.17 stable candidate

Post by Dominik » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:53 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:43 pm
"Filter"? Like a connected assembling machine with a set up recipe ?
Yes. Stuff that sets fluid without actual fluid.

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