Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

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sebmil
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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by sebmil » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:19 pm

Hello,

I played the new introduction scenario and must say I love it. Having roughly 800 hours of play I can't really talk from a new player point of view but I liked the progression and how everything is introduced.

I didn't have any crash but I had a few slow downs (like very fluid then 1/10th of second hang, very fluid again), and I agree with the remarks on compilotron : it's either too fast or too dificult to find. When comes the time to evacuate the first base, I was busy picking as much stuff as possible and didn't see where it went, I had to guess it was going to the north east since the enemies where coming from the other side. Maybe a visual hint like a big arrow pointing to it when the current objective is to go and see him ?

I also found a small issue : after clearing the west enemy bases, I extended my ammo delivering belt to add a new line of defensive towers, and when putting electric poles for the inserters, they connected to an invisible thing, probably the (now destroyed) ship generator :

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by Splitframe » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:44 pm

I had a friend playing the demo who never played Factorio before.
He said:

  • The robot is cool, but sometimes confusing. What the robot said and what the quest objectives
    said were sometimes different / at odds with each other.
  • He was a little overwhelmed when the bot suddenly placed the small mining setup.
  • He had a hard time to figure out how inserters worked and which way is which.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by doppelEben » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:06 pm

I wanted to play the demo today... but so far I cant because reasons ...

first of all I had to restart the game coz a soundfile couldnt load from a mod QUESTIONMARK????
So I thought maybe my mods also are in win-registry so it tried to load the mods I use in my main-game. OK, thought, I deactivated all mods and restarted (via the button the game offered me) and the game restarted. It got stuck at 95% while Loading sprites ... - so I closed it via Taskmanager and unzipped it new and tried it again. this time with 'run as administrator' ... and it again got stuck at 95% nop matter what I do... :(

by the way with the installer I get this message:
factoerror.png
factoerror.png (132.68 KiB) Viewed 522 times
https://prnt.sc/oopsl1

wich translates to

The computer was protected by Windows
Windows Defender SmartScreen prevented the launch of an unknown app. The execution of this app represents f.E. a risk for the PC.

App:
Setup_FactorioDemo_x64_0.17.62.exe
Editor:
Unknown publisher

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by mm.lion » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:53 pm

I've played the introduction. Here are two small bugs

1. Just before the evacuation, Compilatron stood at a chest, and I lost ability to access it (see picture).
2. How can a player complete science consume challenge 12/m if all available sciences have been already researched? This situation may naturally happen, if a player decided to research everything before completing the quest.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by T-A-R » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:26 pm

doppelEben wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:06 pm

The execution of this app represents f.E. a risk for the PC.

Overheating and unresponsible up times, perhaps. Quite ironical as windows is the biggest threat here IMHO. Ok enough kidding.

Isn't that warning standard on Windows? Everything downloaded from the worldwide scam net forms a potential threat if you are unsure about the source where it is downloaded from..

Have you tried reinstalling the game itself? Sometimes cocktails of mods can do weird things on starting the game. (And the is no such things as enough manual backups here).

I guess (Not at latest myself), the demo is already in the game as a scenario, no need for extra downloads nor installs if you have the game already, Uninstall the demo (are these conflicting?)

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by idgod » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:27 pm

Better change to "production" of 12/m instead of consume.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by warlordship » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:42 pm

mm.lion wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:53 pm
I've played the introduction. Here are two small bugs

1. Just before the evacuation, Compilatron stood at a chest, and I lost ability to access it (see picture).
2. How can a player complete science consume challenge 12/m if all available sciences have been already researched? This situation may naturally happen, if a player decided to research everything before completing the quest.
Isn't there an infinite bullet shoot speed tech available by that point? I recall there being one that I didn't level up too much, because even with ~15 labs it was going painfully slow.

As for the demo.... I didn't like the way it tried to LET us build things on our own. I liked the old tutorial's method in which there was the broken remnants of the old furnace line. Some parts still working, some parts broken. I tend to have a bit of a brain fart when I get something complex and a lot of options for how to build. Showing an example of what to do sure helped me get the idea of using belts to move things. If I hadn't, I might still have some bad habits that new players tend to have. For example, showing a miner (both kinds) outputting onto a belt would likely help eliminate some new players tendencies to try to use an inserter to "remove" the ore from the miner. Or to use an inserter to try to put the ore plopped onto the ground onto a belt. Show that it works without that step.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by newllama » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:14 pm

In the old campaign, "A New Hope" level 2 the player discovers a large base that has been decimated by biters. I remember that this was the level that my imagination really kicked into high gear. I think that without that glimpse into the future I might not have had the curiosity to continue through to freeplay. I feel strongly that the current demo would benefit from something like this. It also gives you guys a chance to show off all those cool new remnant assets you created.

There is that weird furnace bunker in the northwest but it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in the context of the level and there's no way to integrate it into your base in the valley.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by PacifyerGrey » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:33 pm

newllama wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:14 pm
In the old campaign, "A New Hope" level 2 the player discovers a large base that has been decimated by biters. I remember that this was the level that my imagination really kicked into high gear. I think that without that glimpse into the future I might not have had the curiosity to continue through to freeplay. I feel strongly that the current demo would benefit from something like this. It also gives you guys a chance to show off all those cool new remnant assets you created.

There is that weird furnace bunker in the northwest but it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in the context of the level and there's no way to integrate it into your base in the valley.
I also support the idea of repairing partially broken base to make it function again. You can leave as many details as you please to hint the player on how the stuff works. Remembering the mission with semi-broken base with trains I was pretty damn hyped to continue stuff. The whole organization of that base made my imagination go through the roof of the scale you can actually build stuff!

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by Mike5000 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:44 am

newllama wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:14 pm
In the old campaign, "A New Hope" level 2 the player discovers a large base that has been decimated by biters. I remember that this was the level that my imagination really kicked into high gear. I think that without that glimpse into the future I might not have had the curiosity to continue through to freeplay.
Yep, there are always more new games than available time. That campaign is what showed me that Factorio was worth spending time on.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by vampiricdust » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:01 am

Alright, so I finished a play through of 0.17.62 version.

Compilatron is still a pain. He sits right where I want to build my steam engines. Lot better than the first version of this Introduction scenario, but perhaps he should sit closer to the water where he's less likely to be in the way.

The bitters feel way too aggressive and I think this mostly due to the game's objectives pressuring players to rush through them rather than play around and experiment. The faster you rush through the objectives, the harder the game gets. I think putting in more objectives to building up the base before going into the bitter attacks would be welcome.

There was nothing about pollution and as a new player, I wouldn't even know that was a thing. The bitters just seemed to attack ever more, so often by scripted events that gives a sense of bitters will always attack in increasing amounts. I think after the bitters expand from the west, having a short explanation that buildings generate pollution and will trigger more attacks would give players a clue that defenses have to grow with the production.

There was also nothing to tell players about fish and the HP restoring powers of sushi. Having Compilatron chill by the shore after the move, then have him mention how tasty those fish look, might be a nice way to hint at this for players without telling them.

Also, I was surprise to see the bitters expanding on their own. As a long time player, I already know this, but I didn't expect it after clearing some nests out. It might be worth mentioning when the bitters expand from the west to bring up that bitters will try to fill empty areas if left undefended. Calling this level a tutorial is very misleading. Not enough is explained of how hostile the bitters will be when the focus is assumed to be on how to make stuff.

There were no prompts from the Compilatron when I using more power than I produced. It might be good to have a trigger for Compilatron to suggest making more steam engines in the same way he prompts for out of fuel items. Pointing out that powered buildings work more slowly when under powered would give players something to watch for.

The last thing I will add is that I think the items in the GUI should be put into columns and organized together like they would be in the Free Play tabs. It's confusing as the number of craftable items increase.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by doppelEben » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:19 am

I managed to get it running.

but my game just crashed - I was about to place som Inserters (inside energy-range of poles) for iron-plates and got attacked at the same time (i noticed, but not clicked the alert on the bottom).

then it crashed with following log. should I put a bug-report or is it enough in here?

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by factoriouzr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:48 am

Thanks for all the updates developers, but you promised a proper linked blueprint library for 0.17.0 and its' now 0.17.62. I hope I don't need to tell you how long it's been since the promise was made, and how long it's been since 0.17.0 was released.

Honestly, I don't mean to be rude, but I've been waiting for a proper blueprint library for a long time and the fact that there has been no progress towards it since 0.17.0 was released and no word from the developers is very discouraging. Right now we have a broken partly implemented mess that half works. It has made me not play factorio for a long time now. All I ask is that you implement this feature soon and also allow us to re-take/update blueprints without resetting the existing blueprint's description, icons and checkboxes. Ie. take an existing blueprint, press a button or hotkey, drag a new area to blueprint and done (all previously checked options for the blueprint, it's description, name, and icons all kept from the previous blueprint).

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by Klonan » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:55 am

factoriouzr wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:48 am
Thanks for all the updates developers, but you promised a proper linked blueprint library for 0.17.0 and its' now 0.17.62. I hope I don't need to tell you how long it's been since the promise was made, and how long it's been since 0.17.0 was released.

Honestly, I don't mean to be rude, but I've been waiting for a proper blueprint library for a long time and the fact that there has been no progress towards it since 0.17.0 was released and no word from the developers is very discouraging. Right now we have a broken partly implemented mess that half works. It has made me not play factorio for a long time now. All I ask is that you implement this feature soon and also allow us to re-take/update blueprints without resetting the existing blueprint's description, icons and checkboxes. Ie. take an existing blueprint, press a button or hotkey, drag a new area to blueprint and done (all previously checked options for the blueprint, it's description, name, and icons all kept from the previous blueprint).
We will add the new GUIs after the first stable,
I can understand you are feeling frustrated that there have been no GUI improvements in the last 6 months,
But at this time the main priority is on fixing bugs.

We will have stable soon, and after that our team will move from resolving issues to developing the new features, such as the improved blueprint library,
This has been our plan from the beginning, and we have communicated this several times during this experimental stage.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by doppelEben » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:34 pm

My poles connect to the already demolished space-ship-reactor.

as I wanted to build a radar on the front and put poles all the way, they connected with what the ship-energy-source was in starter-base after the spaceship-crash
factoerror32.png
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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by factoriouzr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:15 pm

Klonan wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:55 am
factoriouzr wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:48 am
Thanks for all the updates developers, but you promised a proper linked blueprint library for 0.17.0 and its' now 0.17.62. I hope I don't need to tell you how long it's been since the promise was made, and how long it's been since 0.17.0 was released.

Honestly, I don't mean to be rude, but I've been waiting for a proper blueprint library for a long time and the fact that there has been no progress towards it since 0.17.0 was released and no word from the developers is very discouraging. Right now we have a broken partly implemented mess that half works. It has made me not play factorio for a long time now. All I ask is that you implement this feature soon and also allow us to re-take/update blueprints without resetting the existing blueprint's description, icons and checkboxes. Ie. take an existing blueprint, press a button or hotkey, drag a new area to blueprint and done (all previously checked options for the blueprint, it's description, name, and icons all kept from the previous blueprint).
We will add the new GUIs after the first stable,
I can understand you are feeling frustrated that there have been no GUI improvements in the last 6 months,
But at this time the main priority is on fixing bugs.

We will have stable soon, and after that our team will move from resolving issues to developing the new features, such as the improved blueprint library,
This has been our plan from the beginning, and we have communicated this several times during this experimental stage.
Thanks for the reply. There are multiple developers however and the game has been fully playable for a long time now, why not split the resources on bug fixes and new features? There are no game breaking bugs anymore.

Also since you say that your team is focused on resolving issues, then why has the single player campaign gotten so much development time as it's not a bug, it's a new feature you are adding? What you just said contradicts what you are doing with the campaign.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by Koub » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:32 pm

I don't want to sound too much as a fanboy, but if the devs tell us that priorizing bugs makes them unable to work on new features, it's probably because the devs working on the bugs would be those who have to work on the new features, and they don't postpone the GUI changes just to troll us.
That's also probably the reason why we still get some changes, albeit not those we have been expecting for a long time.

I mean they probably know better than us how to optimally manage their team and priorities.
Don't forget also that this is a traditionnally holiday-heavy period, and maybe the key devs for the GUI change are not all available.
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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by drenny » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:07 pm

ManaUser wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:33 am
One quick nitpick: In the evacuation stage it asks me to pick things up. But I'd already picked up everything I wanted in the previous step (OK, yeah I've played it before, but to me "prepare to evacuate" implies "pack your stuff" so I doubt I'd be the only one to respond that way). Not sure precisely what would be a better way to handle this... but it's a minor rough edge IMHO. Had to place some thing and pick the up again to continue.
Came here looking for this. The actual tasks reads "collect some equipment" - I ran around the map collecting random things hoping it would be one of the pieces of "equipment" I needed. Nothing worked.

Wasn't until I read this that I realised it was the items in the previous task, which I never placed because once I made them, the tasks got checked off.

So I had to place them, and then pick them up again. If I didn't find this post, I would have given up on the tutorial right here.

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by factoriouzr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:45 pm

Koub wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:32 pm
I don't want to sound too much as a fanboy, but if the devs tell us that priorizing bugs makes them unable to work on new features, it's probably because the devs working on the bugs would be those who have to work on the new features, and they don't postpone the GUI changes just to troll us.
That's also probably the reason why we still get some changes, albeit not those we have been expecting for a long time.

I mean they probably know better than us how to optimally manage their team and priorities.
Don't forget also that this is a traditionnally holiday-heavy period, and maybe the key devs for the GUI change are not all available.
Yes and no. It's not like the new features have just been requested or promised. These were promised a year and a half ago. 0.17.0 was released 6 months ago. The game was stable to play a week or so after 0.17.0 was released. The Majour bugs were fixed lets say a month after release (likely less then that). Again, this is majour bugs, not every single bug. My point is the game has been stable and playable for at least 5 months and we have been waiting over a year before the release of 0.17.0 for 0.17.0 to be released with no new features for all that time. What many of us are saying is that updates should come more frequently in general. The game doesn't have to have all bugs squashed before new features are added. It should be a balance. First focus on critical game breaking bugs, then split your time between the remaining bugs and new features. This game gets updated so rarely with new features that were promised. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are fixing the bugs as that's really important for a good game, all I'm saying is that it should be a constant balance and both should be worked on at the same time. The Friday facts for the last 6 months or so have been so disappointing. All back end work (again, this is fine as it needs to be done, but should also include new features as well).

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Re: Friday Facts #306 - Experimental Demo

Post by Koub » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm

factoriouzr wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:45 pm
Koub wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:32 pm
[...]
Yes and no. It's not like the new features have just been requested or promised. These were promised a year and a half ago. 0.17.0 was released 6 months ago. The game was stable to play a week or so after 0.17.0 was released. The Majour bugs were fixed lets say a month after release (likely less then that). Again, this is majour bugs, not every single bug. My point is the game has been stable and playable for at least 5 months and we have been waiting over a year before the release of 0.17.0 for 0.17.0 to be released with no new features for all that time. What many of us are saying is that updates should come more frequently in general. The game doesn't have to have all bugs squashed before new features are added. It should be a balance. First focus on critical game breaking bugs, then split your time between the remaining bugs and new features. This game gets updated so rarely with new features that were promised. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are fixing the bugs as that's really important for a good game, all I'm saying is that it should be a constant balance and both should be worked on at the same time. The Friday facts for the last 6 months or so have been so disappointing. All back end work (again, this is fine as it needs to be done, but should also include new features as well).
That's kind of funny because despite I'm not a developper in my day job, I have the same exact issues : enough work for 2-3 people to tackle while being 1. And whenever I prioritize a subject at the expense of the others, I get blamed for not handling the other subjects first by the people who expected them.

So I really know how it feels, and I can tell you that in the end the more people insist on being taken care of first, the more I tend to push their case to the bottom of my todo list (unless I, in all conscience, I am convinced that their issue should be my priority).

That's why I think letting the devs know we long for the GUI updates is fine, but blaming them for not doing them already is useless, and mabe even counterproductive.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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